[opensuse] Beagle frontend (was: General Poor quality of Opensuse)
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Sun, 2009-07-12 at 19:15 +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Samstag, 11. Juli 2009 03:44:30 schrieb Charles Philip Chan:
Beagle ! what a total pain and complete resource hog once again it needs to be a LOT easier to un-install or not install at all With the requisite warning for those that do install it beware it will hog your CPU for excessive amounts of time , Another program I detest. However, you can not fault OpenSUSE only again, since this is part of a default a Gnome installation. It is kind of openSUSE's fault because they install it by default, even with a KDE installation and although somehow not active by default, it does use the CPU and harddisk.
It absolutely does *not* consume CPU or IO if not activated.
Disabling Beagle is well covered at http://en.opensuse.org/Disabling_Beagle It can even be partially disabled; such as not indexing Firefox traffic, etc...
The Beagle FAQ http://beagle-project.org/Troubleshooting_CPU is also a good read.
I'm also one of the old guys who deactivate Beagle owing to bad experience in the past. I might be tempted to revisit that decision, since a search feature for one's files is of obvious merit. Since you seem to know Beagle well: What is a recommended search frontend when one does neither use GNOME nor KDE? Actually, it may be a GNOME or KDE app, the necessary background daemons are running; just no applet, please, as I don't have the respective panel to dock them in. TIA for an answer, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Disabling Beagle is well covered at http://en.opensuse.org/Disabling_Beagle It can even be partially disabled; such as not indexing Firefox traffic, etc... The Beagle FAQ http://beagle-project.org/Troubleshooting_CPU is also a good read. I'm also one of the old guys who deactivate Beagle owing to bad experience in the past. I might be tempted to revisit that decision, since a search feature for one's files is of obvious merit. Since you seem to know Beagle well: What is a recommended search frontend when one does neither use GNOME nor KDE?
I only know in GNOME, but the "Desktop Search" dialog seems to 'just work' if you set a key binding in System / File System / Search I also frequently use the web interface, just because I'm frequently in a browser, which is http://localhost:4000/ provided you have it enabled. It is my default page so Ctrl-T takes me there in a new tab. Sounds odd, but it is handy. You enable the web interface via - beagle-config Networking WebInterface true - it is not enabled by default and only listens on localhost. It is like having your own personal Google. Also as mentioned in the other message, it is a really good idea to tell Beagle to not index your downloads directory. Otherwise it receives a constant stream of notices from inotify that the file has been modified which wakes it up. But until the file is completely downloaded you don't care about its contents. <quote> One thing to check is the search preferences: System / File System / Search in the GNOME menu, then Search / Preferences in the "Desktop Search" application. I have a directory to which I usually download items and I exclude that from the Beagle search path via the "Indexing" tab. Also in the "Data Sources" I disable the plugins for apps I don't use. I don't think this makes a big difference but on my system the BeagleDaemon runs with a scant ~12MB of writable memory [total is ~50MB, but more than half of that is shared libraries]. </quote>
Actually, it may be a GNOME or KDE app, the necessary background daemons are running; just no applet, please, as I don't have the respective panel to dock them in.
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Disabling Beagle is well covered at Lets face it beagle is nothing more than an excuse for a poorly organised filing system not on the machines behalf but on the side of the user , IF the user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in
On Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 14:53:02 Adam Tauno Williams wrote: the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines . Pete .
On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 15:52 +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 14:53:02 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Disabling Beagle is well covered at Lets face it beagle is nothing more than an excuse for a poorly organised filing system not on the machines behalf but on the side of the user
No, you are wrong.
, IF the user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines .
And what 'organized' filesystem will let me see related IMs, documents, web content, e-mail, and contact information in one view derived from a single action? None. A filesystem just can't do that. A filesystem doesn't include my e-mail attachments, it doesn't include my calendar, it doesn't include my contacts. And a filesystem can't tell me all of the Open Office Writer documents that mention "WMOGAG" for example. When I search my filesystem it can't bring to my attention that the thing I'm searching for was mentioned yesterday on an RSS feed. -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 15:52 +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 14:53:02 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Disabling Beagle is well covered at Lets face it beagle is nothing more than an excuse for a poorly organised filing system not on the machines behalf but on the side of the user
No, you are wrong.
, IF the user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines .
And what 'organized' filesystem will let me see related IMs, documents, web content, e-mail, and contact information in one view derived from a single action? None.
And why would anyone need that? Peter was addressing filesystem organization, but he could just as well have been addressing organization of your life. Do you routinely keep all of your possessions in a heap in the middle of the floor? If not, why do you maintain your files and your life this way? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 15:52 +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 14:53:02 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Disabling Beagle is well covered at
Lets face it beagle is nothing more than an excuse for a poorly organised filing system not on the machines behalf but on the side of the user
No, you are wrong.
, IF the user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines .
And what 'organized' filesystem will let me see related IMs, documents, web content, e-mail, and contact information in one view derived from a single action? None.
And why would anyone need that?
Peter was addressing filesystem organization, but he could just as well have been addressing organization of your life.
Do you routinely keep all of your possessions in a heap in the middle of the floor? If not, why do you maintain your files and your life this way?
What room or shelf would you put a knife in? The kitchen? Ok, but then what about the knife room? All the kitchen knives are missing from the knife collection room. And all the knives are missing from the cutting tools room because they're in the knife room and the kitchen, oh and the razors in the bathroom those are missing too, oh and the garden shears out in the shed... Dang, what about the room that contains all the things made out of brass? Where are all your batteries? In the battery room? Why not? Aren't you organized? Why are they scattered all around in your watches, remotes, clocks, flashlights, your car, your wireless mouse at your office... A filesystem is a one-dimensional linear hierarchy and as such you can only use it to organize things by one single aspect per item. You have to choose one place for a document about oats , perhaps /research/chemistry/organic/food/oats/proteins.txt and as such, it can't also be in a list of all docs about proteins, or about plant diseases, or even about oats if the higher level interest of the moment was about mechanical properties or shipping statistics or the effects of weather patterns instead of organic chemistry. NO document has only one aspect. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines . And what 'organized' filesystem will let me see related IMs, documents, web content, e-mail, and contact information in one view derived from a single action? None. And why would anyone need that? Peter was addressing filesystem organization, but he could just as well have been addressing organization of your life. Do you routinely keep all of your possessions in a heap in the middle of the floor? If not, why do you maintain your files and your life this way? What room or shelf would you put a knife in? The kitchen?
The real problem with this argument is that data is not things; it is a nice metaphor but it just isn't true. But if you insist on that metaphor: Just about anything from a ODT document to an e-mail message is itself composed of constituent parts; an e-mail address has a body, attachments, a subject, recipients... The context those parts create for each other are what make the e-mail valuable. A kitchen knife is a kitchen knife - in everyday reality nobody [except a chef] cares about the alloy the blade is made out of or the type of plastic the handle is made out of. But I care allot about the e-mails I've exchanged with customer X. And "why would anyone need that?" Because there is useful data captured in all those things. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 14 July 2009 04:04:11 pm Adam Tauno Williams wrote: ...
What room or shelf would you put a knife in? The kitchen?
The real problem with this argument is that data is not things; it is a nice metaphor but it just isn't true.
I would say that you missed bottom part of the Brian's email :-) -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 14:53:02 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Disabling Beagle is well covered at
Lets face it beagle is nothing more than an excuse for a poorly organised filing system not on the machines behalf but on the side of the user , IF the user was to have a sensible way of creating storing and sorting his files in the first place there would be no need for the unmitigated resource hog in the first place it just allows people to be lax and untidy
so there is no reason for it to be installed there is on the other hand a need to teach people to organise the machines .
Pete .
Much as I dislike beagle or other desktop indexers myself, This statement is actually unjust. There is really no way possible to really organize files and other content well enough. The filesystem is like a one-key database. Almost useless. It only works for very small amounts of content and/or very narrowly focused usage of that content. Practically every document or other content has multiple facets, but you have to pick only one facet to use to organize by filesystem. Take a trivial example, an mp3 collection. (the same applies to any kind of content, this is just an easy one to use as an example) I organize my music in a typical: /share/tunes/artist/album/01 - track title.ogg Well, that's fine but what about songs where the artist is just one of several artists who has one track on a compilation album? What about artists that have moved through several bands over the years or is in 2 or 3 different bands at the same time now? What about other content related to the same artist like tribute bands or tribute performances or other forms of media like videos or high quality reference flac files that you don't want actually filed with the conveniently playable mp3/ogg files? If you try to draw the possible connections and relevancies between all these files it forms a big rats nest of lines. It can not be expressed in a single key hierarchal structure that a filesystem provides. (symlinks can add another dimention but just make things worse really because that's not remotely conveniently maintainable) So you might say, "ah, but we have dedicated purpose applications to supply exactly those needs of media collections." True, but that app doesn't do anyting but that one job for itself and with many assumptions about what kinds of things you will ever be interested in about the data it manages. If you want to find all references to turtles, in your music, in your recipes, in your paintings and videos, in your novels, in your how-to documents, etc.. you can't do it. As I said, I still don't use these things myself yet, but it is kind of ignorant to say there is no need for indexing and searching because you should just be more organized in how you file things. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-14 at 09:53 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
I also frequently use the web interface, just because I'm frequently in a browser, which is http://localhost:4000/ provided you have it enabled. It is my default page so Ctrl-T takes me there in a new tab. Sounds odd, but it is handy. You enable the web interface via - beagle-config Networking WebInterface true - it is not enabled by default and only listens on localhost. It is like having your own personal Google.
This is new to me. I have to try it! But I'd have to change the port, 4000 is in use (for telnet to a daemon) - but that option is not offered. Another question: do you know if beagle, in 11.0, scans openoffice documents? The other day I was looking for a file I had misplaced (ie, it was not in the directory it should), so I wanted to search using a sentence I knew I had used. Nothing found. I finally found it via locating a backup copy, and then searching for the exact file name. So... does it search .odt files? If it does, I have something broken/misconfigured. If it doesn't, it is a real pity. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpcx7wACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UA1ACaAwyTH/rkUjFJK7Ltm3XkgbLK VWoAnRXkerEnl4SfL36puGLv74mlhiBe =3wOW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I also frequently use the web interface, just because I'm frequently in a browser, which is http://localhost:4000/ provided you have it enabled. It is my default page so Ctrl-T takes me there in a new tab. Sounds odd, but it is handy. You enable the web interface via - beagle-config Networking WebInterface true - it is not enabled by default and only listens on localhost. It is like having your own personal Google. This is new to me. I have to try it! But I'd have to change the port, 4000 is in use (for telnet to a daemon) - but that option is not offered.
Off hand I don't know how.
Another question: do you know if beagle, in 11.0, scans openoffice documents?
Yes, it is beautiful! If you have the task of maintaining (which is much harder than creating!) a large number of documents this saves massive amounts of time. http://beagle-project.org/Supported_Filetypes If you just enabled Beagle [it wasn't running before] it may not have competed the indexing of your documents, it does so rather slowly so as not to bog down the system.
The other day I was looking for a file I had misplaced (ie, it was not in the directory it should), so I wanted to search using a sentence I knew I had used. Nothing found.
Do you have Beagle set to index your documents (and your home directory)? I believe some of that is disabled by default.
I finally found it via locating a backup copy, and then searching for the exact file name. So... does it search .odt files? If it does, I have something broken/misconfigured. If it doesn't, it is a real pity.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-14 at 14:05 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
But I'd have to change the port, 4000 is in use (for telnet to a daemon) - but that option is not offered.
Off hand I don't know how.
Perhaps gconf?
Another question: do you know if beagle, in 11.0, scans openoffice documents?
Yes, it is beautiful! If you have the task of maintaining (which is much harder than creating!) a large number of documents this saves massive amounts of time.
Sometimes I don't remember the name I gave the file, and if the file is missplaced on the wrong directoy, it is hard to find.
If you just enabled Beagle [it wasn't running before] it may not have competed the indexing of your documents, it does so rather slowly so as not to bog down the system.
Maybe I disabled it time ago and forgot to reenable :-? cer@nimrodel:~> beagle-info --status Scheduler: Count: 21 Status: Waiting on empty queue Pending Tasks: I think the index might be broken... some files are old. Mmm... /home/cer/.beagle/Log/current-Beagle: 20090711 22:39:33.6498 04372 Beagle INFO: Starting Beagle Daemon (version 0.3.7) 20090711 22:39:33.9964 04372 Beagle INFO: Running on Mono 1.9.1 20090711 22:39:34.0258 04372 Beagle INFO: Command Line: /usr/lib/beagle/BeagleDaemon.exe --bg --autostarted --indexing-delay 300 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: Caught exception while instantiating Files backend 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.IO.IOException: read past EOF 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Lucene.Net.Store.BufferedIndexInput.Refill () [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Lucene.Net.Store.BufferedIndexInput.ReadByte () [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Lucene.Net.Store.IndexInput.ReadInt () [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Lucene.Net.Index.SegmentInfos+AnonymousClassFindSegmentsFile1.DoBody (System.String segmentFileName) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Lucene.Net.Index.SegmentInfos+FindSegmentsFile.run () [0x00000] --- End of inner exception stack trace --- 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at System.Reflection.MonoCMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at System.Reflection.MonoCMethod.Invoke (BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at System.Reflection.ConstructorInfo.Invoke (System.Object[] parameters) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at System.Activator.CreateInstance (System.Type type, Boolean nonPublic) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at System.Activator.CreateInstance (System.Type type) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:46.7501 04372 Beagle ERROR EX: at Beagle.Daemon.QueryDriver.ScanAssemblyForQueryables (System.Reflection.Assembly assembly) [0x00000] 20090711 22:39:50.9015 04372 Beagle WARN: Unable to create read-only index (likely due to index version mismatch): /var/cache/beagle/indexes/documentation So I have to force rebuild of the indexes. I know how to stop the daemon (beagle-shutdown) but not how to restart it. [...] ah, simple: try to search something, it says the daemon is not running, and it offers to restart it. [...] Now it is indexing mail, althought I have the mail backends disabled (I'd want plain mail scan (pine/mutt), not kmail, evolution or thunderbird, which contain the wrong data). We'll see... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpc4nwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U0bQCggsiO3xPVy4k8vCAQRoHpPiZV +sQAn0Yk5gd9e9aKrKnVc4QPVUfFE0wq =laq3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-14 at 21:54 +0200, I wrote:
Another question: do you know if beagle, in 11.0, scans openoffice documents?
Yes, it is beautiful! If you have the task of maintaining (which is much harder than creating!) a large number of documents this saves massive amounts of time.
...
I think the index might be broken... some files are old. Mmm...
...
So I have to force rebuild of the indexes. I know how to stop the daemon (beagle-shutdown) but not how to restart it. [...] ah, simple: try to search something, it says the daemon is not running, and it offers to restart it. [...] Now it is indexing mail, althought I have the mail backends disabled (I'd want plain mail scan (pine/mutt), not kmail, evolution or thunderbird, which contain the wrong data).
We'll see...
It worked. It started by looking at all my email, even though I had dissabled the backends. For several hours it scanned mail (I didn't notice slowness). I had to also exclude the patterns where kmail indexes were stored, and even that was not enough: I had to kill the daemon, then restart it. Then it scanned the rest of the folders in little over an hour, forgetting email. And it works: it does find the content in the openpffice files I search for, and fast. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpeXLUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W98ACeO8oh93KhO/0HVh1UVSdmmAOS L9IAnRRWDe2Dd2Ok6q+/DLQ8rcU5M+Zw =EBTP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R.
It worked.
It started by looking at all my email, even though I had dissabled the backends. For several hours it scanned mail (I didn't notice slowness). I had to also exclude the patterns where kmail indexes were stored, and even that was not enough: I had to kill the daemon, then restart it. Then it scanned the rest of the folders in little over an hour, forgetting email.
And it works: it does find the content in the openpffice files I search for, and fast.
Yes, it can be a handy tool. It worked well for me in 10.1, until support was dropped and didn't seem like it was ever there for SLED 10. One caveat, if you index a large area/quantity wise, the indexes can grow to a great size.... -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-07-15 at 20:44 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
And it works: it does find the content in the openpffice files I search for, and fast.
Yes, it can be a handy tool. It worked well for me in 10.1, until support was dropped and didn't seem like it was ever there for SLED 10.
Ah, yes. It happens.
One caveat, if you index a large area/quantity wise, the indexes can grow to a great size....
1 GiB! I'm sleepy and I'm unsure if 1,631,702K is 1 G >:-) It is indeed a lot. Another caveat I observe is that cpu spikes when machine is iddle, like every 5 seconds... hold on, I have "beagle-status" running, which updates the display every 5"... Yep, that was it. Funny. O:-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpexG0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UPiACfcPzg1OF/EilSrlz8C6S+FBNl SNoAmgLBClgYfbovDJoOeQxtLr6OsKYM =Y4Aw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I'm also one of the old guys who deactivate Beagle owing to bad experience in the past. I might be tempted to revisit that decision, since a search feature for one's files is of obvious merit.
Me too... when Beagle was introduced it pretty much tanked my computer... I couldn't remove it fast enough. That said, Beagle is no longer a problem in my experience. While I don't use it, if it is installed (and updated of course) on my computer, I don't even notice that it's there anymore. I did a recent re-install of 11.1 x64 and Beagle sat there humming along for about a week until I got around to removing it - this time it was removed simply because I don't use it (same reason I remove the KDE4 games that are included by default), and definitely not because it was sucking up CPU and memory like it used to. Basically... it's come a long way from when it was first included in the distro, and it works well for what it's designed to be. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Brian K. White -
Carlos E. R. -
Clayton -
Joachim Schrod -
John Andersen -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter Nikolic -
Rajko M.