On Tuesday 12 October 2004 02:30, Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Monday 11 October 2004 19:34, Patrick B. O'Brien wrote:

...

Any body ever go out to the http://www.kernel.org/ site, grab and update their kernel? How did it go, How did you do it?

I always use the latest vanilla kernel......

Just out of interest, why? I am fortunate that all my hardware at home and at work works natively in SUSE, and I've never had any stability issues (except with hardware failure), so I've never seen the need to use anything but the kernel supplied with SUSE. Although I did try a few 2.6 kernels with 8.2 and 9.0, but that didn't work as well as I hoped. -- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za

Hans du Plooy wrote:

On Tuesday 12 October 2004 02:30, Bruce Marshall wrote:

...

On Monday 11 October 2004 19:34, Patrick B. O'Brien wrote:

...

Any body ever go out to the http://www.kernel.org/ site, grab and update their kernel? How did it go, How did you do it?

I always use the latest vanilla kernel......

Just out of interest, why?

I am fortunate that all my hardware at home and at work works natively in SUSE, and I've never had any stability issues (except with hardware failure), so I've never seen the need to use anything but the kernel supplied with SUSE. Although I did try a few 2.6 kernels with 8.2 and 9.0, but that didn't work as well as I hoped.

There were a number of things in 8.2 and 9.0 that didn't gel with 2.6 - initrd, hotplug, the change to /etc/modprobe.conf etc, I had to do quite a bit of hacking around to get things to work and never got them to work as expected with 9.1, but they were stable once they were up. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:13:23PM -0400, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

I'm wondering what functionality one loses by running the latest kernel from kernel.org versus the latest one from SuSE. And SuSE also has some unofficial test kernels available too, don't they?

I seem to remember that at one time SuSE had some kernel support for SuSE splash screens that wasn't in the standard kernels. Is that still the case?

Paul Abrahams

If what I've read is true, the SUSE Kernels are very very moded. I'd imagine switching to a Kernel from kernel.org would probably act a lot different.

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On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:07:51PM -0600, Dana J. Laude wrote:

On Tuesday 12 October 2004 20:13, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

...

I'm wondering what functionality one loses by running the latest kernel from kernel.org versus the latest one from SuSE. And SuSE also has some unofficial test kernels available too, don't they?

I seem to remember that at one time SuSE had some kernel support for SuSE splash screens that wasn't in the standard kernels. Is that still the case?

I really don't think that you actually "lose" functionality on a hand rolled kernel vs a SuSE provided one. I used to do that back in the 5.1 days, you just have to configure things that you want. I'm personally just using the stock 9.1 kernel now, since it works for my hardware on my personal computer.

Splash screens are just that... spiffy graphic stuff. You do have to enable a few features in the kernel, (can't recall off hand) but it's possible.

In debian I almost "always" do a custom kernel, but thats for servers and such. That's really the cool thing about linux though... you always have the options available to you! :)

Debian / Libranet have a tool for recompiling the Kernel which I would LOVE for SUSE too get. Libranet Linux I know for sure has it, and it's very nice. A read where a newbie re-did his Kernel because ti was so easy with this tool. I can't think of what it's called off hand though. I'm not a Debian user though, I use SUSE, Slackware, and Free BSD, and for at least one machine, XP. I do like Libranet, just not enough to where I'll give up Slackware or SUSE.

Dana

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On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:36:29PM -0600, Dana J. Laude wrote:

On Tuesday 12 October 2004 22:50, Allen wrote:

...

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:07:51PM -0600, Dana J. Laude wrote: <snip>

...

In debian I almost "always" do a custom kernel, but thats for servers and such. That's really the cool thing about linux though... you always have the options available to you! :)

Debian / Libranet have a tool for recompiling the Kernel which I would LOVE for SUSE too get. Libranet Linux I know for sure has it, and it's very nice. A read where a newbie re-did his Kernel because ti was so easy with this tool. I can't think of what it's called off hand though.

I'm not a Debian user though, I use SUSE, Slackware, and Free BSD, and for at least one machine, XP. I do like Libranet, just not enough to where I'll give up Slackware or SUSE.

I've never actually done the "debian" way on a kernel install, just grabbed the source from kernel.org and went from there. :) Never tried the Libranet. I really prefer the "apt" type install vs Yast. Although things are getting much better on SuSE since I last ventured here, I'm still much more familiar with debian in general, but all-in-all its been a good thing.

Only thing I need now, is to get my WinTV Go (bt878) card working under 9.1. (start another thread if you're and expert at this!) ;)

Dana

Libranet is Debian based and does include apt-get and the other Debian tools, plus more. That's how I learned too use apt-get, and from there I got better with Swaret on Slacware which is similar.

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On Wednesday 13 October 2004 12:07 am, Dana J. Laude wrote:

Splash screens are just that... spiffy graphic stuff. You do have to enable a few features in the kernel, (can't recall off hand) but it's possible.

Are you referring to the stock kernel or the SuSE kernel? In other words, is it possible to get the graphic stuff (which I find handy) from a properly configured stock kernel, or is it actually necessary to apply SuSE source-code patches to a stock kernel in order to get the splash-screen functionality? Paul

On Wednesday 13 October 2004 12:36 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:

If you want [the SuSE bootsplash graphics] "the suse way" you need to apply

the bootsplash

patches. But you could also do it the red hat way and start a very early X server

Anders, do you know if the bootsplash patches are pretty much independent of the other SuSE kernel patches? Would it be easy to apply them to a stock kernel, or would the "code alignment" problem be a real pain in the butt? Paul

On Wednesday 13 October 2004 10:25, Paul W. Abrahams wrote:

On Wednesday 13 October 2004 12:07 am, Dana J. Laude wrote:

...

Splash screens are just that... spiffy graphic stuff. You do have to enable a few features in the kernel, (can't recall off hand) but it's possible.

Are you referring to the stock kernel or the SuSE kernel? In other words, is it possible to get the graphic stuff (which I find handy) from a properly configured stock kernel, or is it actually necessary to apply SuSE source-code patches to a stock kernel in order to get the splash-screen functionality?

I was referring to the stock kernel. I know this is possible, but I've never actually saw a need for this. Someone spoke up about this today, and I've seen some previous threads on the debian-user list also. Dana

On Wednesday, 13 October 2004 06.07, Dana J. Laude wrote:

I really don't think that you actually "lose" functionality on a hand rolled kernel vs a SuSE provided one.

Download the src.rpm, break out the patches and see for yourself. A lot of stuff in there finds its way into the mainline kernel, some is already there, like backports of the latest bug fixes from the bk tree, but other stuff isn't. The bootsplash and the early logging are the most obvious examples. The kernel debugger, precompiled nvidia and ATI drivers, SElinux patches, subfs, there's a lot of stuff in there that you won't get by just grabbing the latest kernel.org kernel User space applications won't see a big difference of course, if that's what you meant. Things will still run

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 02:14:17PM -0500, jfweber@bellsouth.net wrote:

*** Reply to message from Anders Johansson on Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:48:50 +0200 One more candle and a trip around the Sun***

...

User space applications won't see a big difference of course, if that's what you meant. Things will still run

That is one of the nicest things that can be said of Linux... there is such a thing as User space, and it is honored, most of the time, so things will "Still run"..

It's one of the things I have trouble explaining to people who aren't "into" computers.. let me or someone else set up a suitable and safe linux for you, and just plink away at a keyboard or clickety click w/ your mouse.. "things just work" ( once we get a nice stable setup , and a suitably tight firewall.. <G>) but the user doesn't need to know any of that... and BTW isn't that what the MS os is suposed to do ???? I've got some folks using it where they have no idea what Linux IS, but they love thier computer now, no virii, w/ a wee bit of work , not too many

Heh, my Mom isn't a computer person and I installed SUSE for her one day. She did fine and liked it, but then of course she needed an application that only had Windows points, so I had to erase it and install Windows again. Instead of 98 I put Windows 2000 Professional on since I dont use it right now and I paid for it. The thing wouldn't work in 2000, but after some playing, I got it and her printer working fine.

My son in law wanted me to erase windows from his computer... tho now he is glad I didn't. He has to take some classes for work, and they insist on only MS proggy's and I.E. DUMB!! Still, I've tolkd my daughter what to do to make his Linux browser ID itself as IE... and told her also to get either or both firefox and Moz... if they have to be in Windows and web browse better to keep IE away..

I can totally feel for you here. I have an online class and my college makes you use XP, Office XP at least, and IE. But of course anyone who knows me from this list knows I like to argue. I had a little "chat" with a teacher, you can now use Linux too do your Homework as long as it's pproperly formatted, but you still have to use IE for the online class. I hate that and pointed out how in the book it says "You must use a reliable computer running Windows and IE" and said that wasn't possible ;)

IF they lived closer I'd set up Konqi to lie to his school for him, and give him Codeweavers to do whatever work he needs to do in Winders.. but It's rather hard to do over the phone. He sorta understands what the computer's system is doing ... but only sorta. I'm thinking it will eat cel ( mobile) phone minutes to do anything too far out unless there is someone to handhold while we tiptoe thru the setup... ( conversations that start w/ "okay, what do you see on your screen? Begin at the upper left hand corner and work your way accross". ) At least, now that I'm on the right coast, they can't wake me up to tell me the computer *ate* 6 months of billing reccords or something equally catostrophic.... <heavy sigh>

Too me SUSE is one of the most secure Linux distros available. Being able to download updates before you even boot up is one of the best ideas I've seen, ever. I've been plugging for SUSE before that though, I got SUSE 8.1 Professional, and when I bought it, it wasn't new as 8.2 was coming out already, and that was when I got into Linux and started using it.

My sister, who is completely unsavy about computers is switching tho I'm putting her and some others on Xandros, just because it looks so windows-y it *should* cut down the phone calls. Linspire or whatever they are calling it this week would be my next choice for home computer users who only want to web surf and do email... Tho if I set them up they never know what they could do if root was the default login... ( I also disable the auto login that Suse is doing now, once the video card is set <G>) Let them understand the value of good passwords, if for no other reason than to keep the kiddies from reading the Xmas lists ... once they get reletively at ease w/ Linux, we will talk about encrypting things... like email !! <G>

OF course if things get much much too hairy, I yell for Anders, one of the two of them should help bail me out of the problem that has managed to get away from me ... <VBG>

BTW don't I owe one of you two some Good Karma bonus points????

about to hit the road... will chat more next week after I get back... ( in case I've managed to offend <G>) Huntsville calls ...

-- j -- nemo me impune lacessit

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On Thursday 14 Oct 2004 03:41, Dana J. Laude wrote:

On Wednesday 13 October 2004 10:48, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Wednesday, 13 October 2004 06.07, Dana J. Laude wrote:

...

I really don't think that you actually "lose" functionality on a hand rolled kernel vs a SuSE provided one.

Download the src.rpm, break out the patches and see for yourself. A lot of stuff in there finds its way into the mainline kernel, some is already there, like backports of the latest bug fixes from the bk tree, but other stuff isn't. The bootsplash and the early logging are the most obvious examples. The kernel debugger, precompiled nvidia and ATI drivers, SElinux patches, subfs, there's a lot of stuff in there that you won't get by just grabbing the latest kernel.org kernel

User space applications won't see a big difference of course, if that's what you meant. Things will still run

Thanks for the heads up Anders, I'll have to take a look at the src.rpm. I have not had to do a custom kernel yet under 9.1, since my hardware is well supported under the stock SuSE kernel. (minus some fudging around I have to do yet for my bt878 WinTV Go card)

In debian, I always have to do a custom kernel, because of my built-in soundcard, plus a few other tweaks for the nvidia chipset.

Dana

Hi I found the only way i could get my bt878 WinTV Go to behave was to install the "bttv.ko" module after KDE has started by hand and my web cam "ovcamchip.ko" has the same problem no matter what i try no go on the auto side i just included cd / modprobe bttv modprobe ovcamchip in a small file and run that by hand everything works one i have been unable to sort out with 9.1 it was ok in 9.0 heres hoping it's back to rights in 9.2 Pete -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world has NO USE for M$ Corp it is time to END M$ Corp , Play time is over folks time for action approaches at an alarming pace the death knell for M$ Copr has been sounded . Termination time is around the corner ..

AJ >On Tuesday, 12 October 2004 01.34, Patrick B. O'Brien wrote: AJ >> Any body ever go out to the http://www.kernel.org/ site, grab and update AJ >> their kernel? AJ > AJ >yes, I've done it once or twice AJ > AJ >> How did it go, AJ > AJ >Sometimes well, sometimes not so well. Now that kernel.org has abandoned AJ >the "even means stable, odd means development" thing, getting vanilla AJ >kernels has become even more of a crap shoot than it was before. What are you talking about abandoning the version number scheme? .1, .3, .5, .7 etc are development kernels. As soon as it's stable _enough_ that bleeding-edge users might want to use it, it's released as the next higher even number (.6 in this case). That way they get more people on the bug-testing bandwagon. Linus stays around until he's so happy with it that he decides it's time to split off the next development branch. Evenone knows that as long as Linux is still working on stable kernel it's because he's not done going over it with a fine-tooth comb yet. If you want a really stable kernel you should wait until Linux has moved on to the next dev branch. But really, after any branch is renamed to an even number it's reasonably safe to use it. -- ---------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Wilson Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com

On Tuesday 12 October 2004 23:16, Anders Johansson wrote:

This is why Linus hasn't opened up a 2.7 tree yet.

http://lwn.net/Articles/95312/

Good pointer, Anders! :) Cheers, Leen

On 12 Oct 2004, jw@mailsw.com wrote:

But really, after any branch is renamed to an even number it's reasonably safe to use it.

Unfortunately, Linus wants to abandon that scheme and let the distros stabilise the kernel. Charles -- "...Unix, MS-DOS, and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." (By Matt Welsh)