[SLE] And it just gets worse... (GTK file navigation) (rant)
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM. Yeh, I know what a file system is but I'd rather see just a layout of my directory structure. Many new users don't really think in terms of a 'file system'... that's pretty much a 'nix term. Anyway, we've been stuck with this <fill in nasty word> for awhile and it seems to become more pervasive. I hate it, and most of the people I've talked to hate it also. However, it *did* work... and as such, there wasn't much to complain about since it was a matter of opinion. Now that has changed. I'm running 10.1 and using the Keramik theme... (not sure that makes a difference but it might) I just started up the Gimp and was searching for some files. Now, someone has decided that it would be nice to 'shade' every other line in a list of files. Great idea... (I suppose) except that on my screen EVERY OTHER LINE IS TOTAL BLACK! In a list of files, you either have to know what you are looking for, and do an alphabetical lookup to guess at it, or you have to click on each black line which will turn it to a blue color and you can read the filename. Totally Assinine!! Does anyone know where is the best place to report this?? I mean, I want to give it the big blast because this makes a lot of linux totally unusable..... And just to make sure, I just switched my theme to "KDE Classic" and it didn't change a thing in the Gimp. (or many other apps I am sure) Can anyone verify this behavior? -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM. ? Yeh, I know what a file system is but I'd rather see just a layout of my directory structure. Many new users don't really think in terms of a 'file system'... that's pretty much a 'nix term. yeah, because *nix actually *has* a filesystem... instead of a filebox. M$? Anyway, we've been stuck with this <fill in nasty word> for awhile and it seems to become more pervasive. I hate it, and most of the people I've talked to hate it also. no nasty words please... not necessary... hate is a strong word too... I
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote: think the word you're searching for is personal preference.
However, it *did* work... and as such, there wasn't much to complain about since it was a matter of opinion. Now that has changed. opinions are great... cause everyone has one and nobodies left out :) I'm running 10.1 and using the Keramik theme... (not sure that makes a difference but it might) yeah, it might... stick with 10.0 or < 10.1 was released *way* too soon. I just started up the Gimp and was searching for some files. Now, someone has decided that it would be nice to 'shade' every other line in a list of files. Great idea... very good idea. (I suppose) except that on my screen EVERY OTHER LINE IS TOTAL BLACK! ?
Totally Assinine!! totally assinine is redundant, totally.
Does anyone know where is the best place to report this?? I mean, I want to give it the big blast because this makes a lot of linux totally unusable..... Ubuntu...
And just to make sure, I just switched my theme to "KDE Classic" and it didn't change a thing in the Gimp. (or many other apps I am sure) ? Can anyone verify this behavior? :-)
-- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 18:38, Mark H. Harris wrote:
I just started up the Gimp and was searching for some files. Now, someone has decided that it would be nice to 'shade' every other line in a list of files. Great idea...
very good idea.
(I suppose) except that on my screen EVERY OTHER LINE IS TOTAL BLACK!
?
Other than the fact that your post didn't add any valuable comments other than 'quips', what about TOTALLY BLACK don't you understand? BLACK.... no text, unreadable.....
Totally Assinine!!
totally assinine is redundant, totally.
Does anyone know where is the best place to report this?? I mean, I want to give it the big blast because this makes a lot of linux totally unusable.....
Ubuntu...
And just to make sure, I just switched my theme to "KDE Classic" and it didn't change a thing in the Gimp. (or many other apps I am sure)
?
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-)
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM. ? Yeh, I know what a file system is but I'd rather see just a layout of my directory structure. Many new users don't really think in terms of a 'file system'... that's pretty much a 'nix term. yeah, because *nix actually *has* a filesystem... instead of a filebox. M$? Anyway, we've been stuck with this <fill in nasty word> for awhile and it seems to become more pervasive. I hate it, and most of the people I've talked to hate it also. no nasty words please... not necessary... hate is a strong word too... I
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote: think the word you're searching for is personal preference.
However, it *did* work... and as such, there wasn't much to complain about since it was a matter of opinion. Now that has changed. opinions are great... cause everyone has one and nobodies left out :) I'm running 10.1 and using the Keramik theme... (not sure that makes a difference but it might) yeah, it might... stick with 10.0 or < 10.1 was released *way* too soon. I just started up the Gimp and was searching for some files. Now, someone has decided that it would be nice to 'shade' every other line in a list of files. Great idea... very good idea. (I suppose) except that on my screen EVERY OTHER LINE IS TOTAL BLACK! ?
Totally Assinine!! totally assinine is redundant, totally.
Does anyone know where is the best place to report this?? I mean, I want to give it the big blast because this makes a lot of linux totally unusable..... Ubuntu...
And just to make sure, I just switched my theme to "KDE Classic" and it didn't change a thing in the Gimp. (or many other apps I am sure) ? Can anyone verify this behavior? :-) -- Kind regards,
Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1..... -- Scott Castaline aka Bad2theBone Hey, I was born crazy, what's your excuse?!?! -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
{snip}
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-)
{snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 06:13, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
{snip}
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-) {snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
Nope.... running KDE 3.5.3 on SuSE 10.1. This behavior came about with the later releases of KDE and thus... GTK. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 03:13 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
{snip}
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-) {snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
No, it is standard GIMP on 10.1. I couldn't for the life of me find any config. I don't see it on older systems. I do need to learn C so I can mess with GIMP. I've often thought about GUMP. The GIMP Usability <something that starts with M> Project. -- kai - www.perfectreign.com www.livebeans.com - the new NetBeans community 43...for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Note on the "bad fs navigation in gnome". This is simply a case of SUSE's bad Gnome pkgs and configs.. has been for years. I've been messing about with Ubuntu 6.06 at work at a co-workers behest.. their Gnome desktop simply rocks. I hoped beyond hope for several years that SUSE would get a good Gnome config.. Mr. Ogley (usr-local-bin.org) and myself use to have LONG discussions about this before I'd simply given up and started using KDE. Now that I've been using Ubuntu on a machine in the office.. I can see it's not Gnome that has the problem. It's really sad since they bought Ximian for God's sake. :/ - Ben -- Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 19:48 -0700, kai wrote:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 03:13 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
{snip}
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-) {snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
No, it is standard GIMP on 10.1. I couldn't for the life of me find any config. I don't see it on older systems.
As much as I like Gnome, I use KDE too often to know where the configs really are. I think the gnome-controll-center is the app.
I do need to learn C so I can mess with GIMP. I've often thought about GUMP. The GIMP Usability <something that starts with M> Project.
GimpSHOP is out there, it's supposed toturn the UI into a more PhotoSHOP type ui. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Friday 16 June 2006 03:17 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 19:48 -0700, kai wrote:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 03:13 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
{snip}
Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-) {snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
No, it is standard GIMP on 10.1. I couldn't for the life of me find any config. I don't see it on older systems.
As much as I like Gnome, I use KDE too often to know where the configs really are. I think the gnome-controll-center is the app.
I do need to learn C so I can mess with GIMP. I've often thought about GUMP. The GIMP Usability <something that starts with M> Project.
GimpSHOP is out there, it's supposed toturn the UI into a more PhotoSHOP type ui.
GimpSHOP does nothing for the UI. I set it up for my mom, who uses it often. She's a ten-year Photoshop user, who has now been using GIMP and GimpSHOP for about a year. GimpSHOP simply takes the menu structure from GIMP and re-arranges it to match more what Photoshop has. Unfortunately, I remember the developer saying that the coding of modules in GIMP made it very difficult to simply move menus. That doesn't bode well for a UI change, since I'd be willing to bet theres some pasta in that code. :P -- k -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 06:06 -0700, kai wrote:
On Friday 16 June 2006 03:17 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Thu, 2006-06-15 at 19:48 -0700, kai wrote:
On Thursday 15 June 2006 03:13 am, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:35 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 17:38 -0500, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote: > We've talked before what an abomination the current file > navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. > These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE > SYSTEM.
{snip}
> Can anyone verify this behavior?
:-) {snip}
No problem with mine, but I'm using gnome instead of kde, as well as 10.1.....
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
No, it is standard GIMP on 10.1. I couldn't for the life of me find any config. I don't see it on older systems.
As much as I like Gnome, I use KDE too often to know where the configs really are. I think the gnome-controll-center is the app.
I do need to learn C so I can mess with GIMP. I've often thought about GUMP. The GIMP Usability <something that starts with M> Project.
GimpSHOP is out there, it's supposed toturn the UI into a more PhotoSHOP type ui.
GimpSHOP does nothing for the UI. I set it up for my mom, who uses it often. She's a ten-year Photoshop user, who has now been using GIMP and GimpSHOP for about a year. GimpSHOP simply takes the menu structure from GIMP and re-arranges it to match more what Photoshop has.
Unfortunately, I remember the developer saying that the coding of modules in GIMP made it very difficult to simply move menus. That doesn't bode well for a UI change, since I'd be willing to bet theres some pasta in that code. :P
That's bad. One of these days I'm going to get off of my butt and start looking at some of the code. Way back when I used to do UI coding, in basic. :) It would be nice to have something to put on the resume, like fixing an interface. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 15 June 2006 22:48, kai wrote:
This probably means the OP has some Gnome Configuration issues.
No, it is standard GIMP on 10.1. I couldn't for the life of me find any config. I don't see it on older systems.
But it is also true of other apps..... Firefox, Audacity, and many more. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 18:11 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Yeh, I know what a file system is but I'd rather see just a layout of my directory structure. Many new users don't really think in terms of a 'file system'... that's pretty much a 'nix term.
As compared to what "term"? First off, you are either assuming ... 1. A user coming from Windows, or 2. A user with no computer experience In the case of #1 (which ignores UNIX, MacOS X and other users), it's a catch-22. Let's say we adopt the Microsoft terminology. What is that then? Well, it depends on the Windows version. Even using your own example, Microsoft does _not_ call it a "directory" -- much less tries to explain what a "subdirectory" is. So that confuses people right there. They use the term "folder" -- and have for some time now. I recognized this chronic problem when I tried to find a "Null Modem" serial cable at 3 different superstores one day about 8 years ago. No one had heard of it. But when I finally found one at a small tech shop, it was labeled "Interlnk" (but the techie knew what I was talking about). I then went back to the 3 superstores and they _each_ had the same damn cable -- only one called it "Interlnk" the other called it "Laplink" and yet another called it a "crossover" serial cable. *NONE* of them referred to it as a "null modem" cable. In the case of #2, it doesn't really matter _what_ term you use, as long as you are _consistent_. UNIX has been consistent. There are disk labels and slices (often called partition tables and partitions in the PC world, although that gets very confusing and causes people to not understand how Windows' LDM and various UNIX/Linux LVM works), filesystems (or volumes for advanced organization), and then files and directories. These are the terms used for 30+ years. Microsoft, on the other hand, keeps changing things. And don't even get me started on why drive letters exist and why the backslash is used for directories (that's CP/M's fault -- at least up until the point Microsoft swiped the code c/o Seattle Computer Products ;-). So, again, I don't really think the term matters as long as we are _consistent_. You can_not_ be "consistent" if you just change the terminology every time Microsoft changes it. Which means they are _not_ "directories" but "folders" -- at least until Vista comes out.
Anyway, we've been stuck with this <fill in nasty word> for awhile and it seems to become more pervasive. I hate it, and most of the people I've talked to hate it also.
What I hate is people assuming what the "appropriate term" is. To me, it's the same damn term we've been using for 30+ years! So don't go down this avenue unless you _really_ want to open your mind. The problem isn't us old "UNIX wennies," it's the marketing and changing of terms by the "noobs!" ;-> Not the term Microsoft has been using for the last 5 years -- much less the new set of terms they are changing with Vista. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 18:43, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 18:11 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Yeh, I know what a file system is but I'd rather see just a layout of my directory structure. Many new users don't really think in terms of a 'file system'... that's pretty much a 'nix term.
As compared to what "term"?
I'm not so worried about the term.... but the means of navigation.
First off, you are either assuming ... 1. A user coming from Windows, or 2. A user with no computer experience
So what's your point? When a Windows user clicks OPEN, they get a layout of the file directory which seems to work for 99% of most people. The GTK 'terms' are what are presented to Gimp users (for example) and there are way too many clicks and lousy UI things going on. For instance, if you type in a filename in their SAVE dialog, you can't then hit enter to do the save. Nope, you have to grab your mouse and click on SAVE. That's not either intuitive or user friendly. s version.
Even using your own example, Microsoft does _not_ call it a "directory" -- much less tries to explain what a "subdirectory" is. So that confuses people right there. They use the term "folder" -- and have for some time now.
Again, it's not the terminology so much as the means of getting the job done. But even having to click on FILE SYSTEM is more than a windows user has to do. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 17:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM. You do in fact have a <small point> with these dialog headings: Assuming the root "/" filesystem... yes, its a *nix thing....
Filesystem: This is the root "top" directory entry on a *nix system corresponding to / Home: This is your home folder corresponding to /home/youruserid /home and Home are *not* the same thing. Desktop: These are, well, the entries on your desktop You might want to add more helpful entries to the dialog list on the left. Double click Filesystem, and then click /home on the right... then click +Add to add the entry to the left... add as many "folders" as you feel are appropriate. The reason for this dialog layout is ease of use for non *nix users. I would prefer to see: / <== Filesystem /home/userid <== Home /home/userid/Desktop <== Desktop The problem is trying to make the Windblows community comfortable as they inevitably move over to Linux. If you have suggestions then make them to the GTK community who is working on the latest version of the toolkit. -- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 23:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
We've talked before what an abomination the current file navigation windows are compared to what people are used to. These are the windows that start with HOME DESKTOP FILE SYSTEM.
Can anyone verify this behavior?
Get ti here too on SuSe 9.2 with KDE 3.5.2 .. It's a Gnome/gtk thing . It's a pity that gimp has not been ported/moved to the QT way of doing things it would be an even better program than it is already then . The Gnome devs will tell you it is the correct way to do things make it impossible to do anything they do not see fit and not go where they say you dont know enough about to go ie your filing system . Move gimp over to QT get the best of both worlds then good program (made even better) and by far the better desktop (note i did not say the best YET) i still like olvwm as it happens but ..... Pete . -- The Labour party has changed their emblem from a rose to a condom as it more accurately reflects the government's political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you are actually being fucked. from GSM -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
In reference to the problem of every other line of a File Selection dialog being TOTALLY BLACK, a suggestion from Novell/SuSE solved the problem. (at least for now) rpm -e gtk-qt-engine This cleared up the problem. Not sure what else it does but no bad effects yet. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 6/16/06, Bruce Marshall
In reference to the problem of every other line of a File Selection dialog being TOTALLY BLACK, a suggestion from Novell/SuSE solved the problem. (at least for now)
rpm -e gtk-qt-engine
This cleared up the problem. Not sure what else it does but no bad effects yet.
Yep. That has been the fix for a lot of SUSE Gnome/GTK issues since 9.0 -> And it's sad.. with each version of SUSE they can't seem to compile that pkg correctly. I usually uninstall theirs and compile my own.. same version as theirs each time and it works. I have NO clue what gives. BTW. It doesn't really hurt things. It's just rendering engine so KDE and Gnome programs can force each other to look like each other in their own environment.. at least as far as I know. - Ben -- Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
participants (8)
-
Ben Rosenberg -
Bruce Marshall -
Bryan J. Smith -
kai -
Mark H. Harris -
Mike McMullin -
Peter Nikolic -
Scott Castaline