Hans du Plooy wrote: [...] has an AMD processor. If I had the money now, I would buy the HP with AMD 64 processor. Isn't 64 good as 2x32? Although feeble humor attempt, can someone with more knowledge say whether or not the AMD 64 is simililar in
********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error you must delete it and notify the system manager (e-mail: postmaster@oldham.gov.uk). ********************************************************************** IIRC the Athlon is a ridiculously scalable processor. I believe you could theoretically run over ~128 together. I think there was an article on Toms Hardware or a similar site that did a full look at the chip when it came out. There isn't a motherboard that can actually do this, but I think this scalability has been built in to the chip since the very early days. Thanks, Andrew McCall -----Original Message----- From: Danny Sauer [mailto:suse-linux-e.suselists@danny.teleologic.net] Sent: 16 September 2004 15:21 To: SuSE List Subject: Re: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system Damon wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 05:38: performance
to having two AMD 32 processors?
No. 2 million cycles per second are 2 million cycles whether the address space is 32 bits or 64 bits. The processors are a little quicker due to improved architecture, and the fat pipe speeds some things up, but it's nowhere near 2x. You don't get double the interrupts or double the CPU time like with dual processors - though 2 processors doesn't result in quite a 2x gain in normal operation, either. It's easy to find quad Opteron boards, though, and I thought I'd heard something about an 8 way board. I don't know of anyone running more than 2 Athlons, though I thought Athlons supported more... --Danny, leaving more in-depth explanations to google :) -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com ********************************************************************** Get our Metrolink back on track!!! Write to your MP in support of the campaign - tell them how failing to get the Metrolink extension will affect your life, your business or the economy. You can also pledge your support by filling in an online form on the website of the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE) at http://www.gmpte.com ********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** This note confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses, however we advise that in keeping with good IT practise the recipient should ensure that the e-mail together with any attachments are virus free by running a virus scan themselves. We cannot accept any responsibility for any damage or loss caused by software viruses. http://www.oldham.gov.uk **********************************************************************
Andrew wrote regarding 'RE: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 09:42:
IIRC the Athlon is a ridiculously scalable processor. I believe you could theoretically run over ~128 together. I think there was an article on Toms Hardware or a similar site that did a full look at the chip when it came out.
There isn't a motherboard that can actually do this, but I think this scalability has been built in to the chip since the very early days.
That's the way I remember it, too, but I didn't wanna stick a number on the post when I don't remember the actual number. I had "64" stuck in my head... --Danny, remembering how impressive it was that one could run 4 PPros...
On Thursday 16 September 2004 16.49, Danny Sauer wrote:
Andrew wrote regarding 'RE: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 09:42:
IIRC the Athlon is a ridiculously scalable processor. I believe you could theoretically run over ~128 together. I think there was an article on Toms Hardware or a similar site that did a full look at the chip when it came out.
There isn't a motherboard that can actually do this, but I think this scalability has been built in to the chip since the very early days.
That's the way I remember it, too, but I didn't wanna stick a number on the post when I don't remember the actual number. I had "64" stuck in my head...
--Danny, remembering how impressive it was that one could run 4 PPros...
Sure i can get a Quad Xeon board, but that would be $$$'s My caveats against AMD is the heat, and power Have had a few friends burn out due to failing fans. Thats not my idea of a stable system Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money. The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan, they had Loads and loads of boards, all almost identical. Couldn't see too much difference in most of them. Asus has always runned nice for me. MSI apparently does dual cpu boards... So where do i go from here? -- /Rikard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
Rikard Johnels wrote:
Sure i can get a Quad Xeon board, but that would be $$$'s My caveats against AMD is the heat, and power Have had a few friends burn out due to failing fans. Thats not my idea of a stable system
How is that the system's fault? I have had cpu fans fail on an Athlon based board, and it caused the capacitors on the motherboard to fail, the CPU wasn't damaged at all. I actually repaired the motherboard and it is still in use. Still, motherboard failure should not be blamed on the CPU maker IMHO. Sounds like MS philosophy, i.e "your OS crashed so YOU should be more careful next time".
Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money.
Hardware is never perfect, and even Intel (both CPUs and Mainboards) are subject to failure if abused.
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at?
Sorry, I can't answer that one, I've never run a dual CPU system (nor built one).
So where do i go from here?
I would rather buy a more expensive mainboard (since I can't ever remember a CPU failing) than an expensive CPU and therefore cut costs on the mainboard. -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Registered Linux user 231871
On Thursday 16 September 2004 12:48 pm, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
How is that the system's fault? I have had cpu fans fail on an Athlon based board, and it caused the capacitors on the motherboard to fail,
I've had several capacitors fail on MoBos with NO failure of cpu fans. I just don't think those two things are related. I had many machines with the same line of motherboards where the caps would burst with any P3 over 500mhz, but the same board running slower cpus would last forever. Fans were never an issue, and they ran right thru the failure. I chock it up to undersized/under rated parts, and it evenutally spelled the doom of that mobo manufacturer as the return rate jumped out of sight, and the went belly up. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
Rikard wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 14:51:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 16.49, Danny Sauer wrote:
Andrew wrote regarding 'RE: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 09:42:
IIRC the Athlon is a ridiculously scalable processor. I believe you could theoretically run over ~128 together. I think there was an article on Toms Hardware or a similar site that did a full look at the chip when it came out.
There isn't a motherboard that can actually do this, but I think this scalability has been built in to the chip since the very early days.
That's the way I remember it, too, but I didn't wanna stick a number on the post when I don't remember the actual number. I had "64" stuck in my head...
--Danny, remembering how impressive it was that one could run 4 PPros...
Sure i can get a Quad Xeon board, but that would be $$$'s My caveats against AMD is the heat, and power Have had a few friends burn out due to failing fans. Thats not my idea of a stable system
Your friends had crummy motherboards that don't shut down when the temp gets too high, crummy software that disabled the shutdown, and/or crummy heatsinks that are totally inadequate in passive mode. I've had Intel and Cyrix processors die due to inadequate cooling, too. Maybe we oughtta all run Motorola chips with super-giant heatsinks like in the new dual G4s? :) I don't have any G5's to compare to - but the hatsinks in this last batch of dual G4's that we got are massive - and there's just the one big fan in the cases. Apple may do some stupid things, but sometimes they can really nail case design.
Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money.
Haven't there been problems with some Xeon boards breaking due to the weight of the heatsink required? Hardware failures are detectable long before they cause damage in most cases (use lmsensors to tell if the fan's running or not, for example). Someone applying a shock load to a system is usually an accident that was more difficult to prevent, so I'd rather not have the heatsink yanking the board in half... :) This is why I've started getting cases with the extra mounts to allow bolting the heatsink through the MB into the case. I think it's Chenbro that I'm using right now, but don't remember.
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan, they had Loads and loads of boards, all almost identical. Couldn't see too much difference in most of them. Asus has always runned nice for me. MSI apparently does dual cpu boards...
So where do i go from here?
I've had excelent luck with Asus boards. Look at the chipset on the motherboard after picking a reputable board maker. The AMD chipsets are generally pretty good, the VIA chipsets are hit-n-miss, and the ALI chipsets were junk in most cases. In my limited experience, anyway, with just a few VIA and AMD chipped boards. I've never had one of the nVidia-based boards, so I've no comment there. --Danny
On Thursday 16 September 2004 15:50, Rikard Johnels wrote:
My caveats against AMD is the heat, and power
This was once true, but so many people complained to AMD that they fixed it. With "Cool and Quiet", AMD is *far* ahead of Intel in this area.
Rikard Johnels wrote:
<snip>
Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money.
Maybe I've missed something but why should a Xeon be any more "100 % Linux proofed" than an AMD CPU?
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan, they had Loads and loads of boards, all almost identical. Couldn't see too much difference in most of them. Asus has always runned nice for me. MSI apparently does dual cpu boards...
I throw in Rioworks HDAMA. We're having no troubles with it here, they use AMD's chipset and it has 4+4 ram sockets. KK
On Thursday 16 September 2004 23.10, Kolja Kauder wrote:
Rikard Johnels wrote:
<snip>
Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money.
Maybe I've missed something but why should a Xeon be any more "100 % Linux proofed" than an AMD CPU?
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan, they had Loads and loads of boards, all almost identical. Couldn't see too much difference in most of them. Asus has always runned nice for me. MSI apparently does dual cpu boards...
I throw in Rioworks HDAMA. We're having no troubles with it here, they use AMD's chipset and it has 4+4 ram sockets.
KK Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron) Any issues regarding compatibility etc.? -- /Rikard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
On Thursday 16 September 2004 09:23 pm, Rikard Johnels wrote: [...]
Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron)
Any issues regarding compatibility etc.?
-- /Rikard
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Rikard, Generally, most of us stay away from Asus motherboards, not only for the problems but for their attitude toward Linux as well. There was an article just recently about that, so I think it probably give many a new disrespect for the brand. Tyan always makes a good quality board. You pay for them, but I believe the quality is up to the cost. Also, you will get so much more cpu with the Opteron than any of the Intel cpus available. Lee -- --- KMail v1.7 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.1 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Those Who Dance Are Considered Insane, by Those Who Cannot Hear the Music!
On Friday 17 September 2004 03.50, BandiPat wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 09:23 pm, Rikard Johnels wrote: [...]
Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron)
Any issues regarding compatibility etc.?
-- /Rikard
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Rikard, Generally, most of us stay away from Asus motherboards, not only for the problems but for their attitude toward Linux as well. There was an article just recently about that, so I think it probably give many a new disrespect for the brand.
Tyan always makes a good quality board. You pay for them, but I believe the quality is up to the cost. Also, you will get so much more cpu with the Opteron than any of the Intel cpus available.
Lee
-- --- KMail v1.7 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.1 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Those Who Dance Are Considered Insane, by Those Who Cannot Hear the Music!
Is that true even with the Intel Itanium? (Not that i have seen anything about them..) I know about the Asus attitude, but the board is the most suitable for my needs as far as i have been able to find out. It would be a shame if it wasnt 100% "Linux proof" as it seems to be a rather proficient card. (Attitude or no attitude) (I did look at a quad Xeon MP board, but thought of the world economy failing if i would buy such a card...) -- /Rikard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
On Thursday 16 September 2004 10:55 pm, Rikard Johnels wrote:
On Friday 17 September 2004 03.50, BandiPat wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 09:23 pm, Rikard Johnels wrote: [...]
Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron)
Any issues regarding compatibility etc.?
-- /Rikard
----------------------------------------------------------------- ----
Rikard, Generally, most of us stay away from Asus motherboards, not only for the problems but for their attitude toward Linux as well. There was an article just recently about that, so I think it probably give many a new disrespect for the brand.
Tyan always makes a good quality board. You pay for them, but I believe the quality is up to the cost. Also, you will get so much more cpu with the Opteron than any of the Intel cpus available.
Lee
-- --- KMail v1.7 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.1 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Those Who Dance Are Considered Insane, by Those Who Cannot Hear the Music!
Is that true even with the Intel Itanium? (Not that i have seen anything about them..)
I know about the Asus attitude, but the board is the most suitable for my needs as far as i have been able to find out. It would be a shame if it wasnt 100% "Linux proof" as it seems to be a rather proficient card. (Attitude or no attitude)
(I did look at a quad Xeon MP board, but thought of the world economy failing if i would buy such a card...)
-- =============
Well, it's not just attitude with Asus, they specifically don't like Linux and make their motherboards not to like Linux. That was in the article. That speaks pretty strongly how likely their boards are to be incompatible with Linux. Sorry, I don't remember the url to give you. I think you will be hard pressed to find a better 64bit x86 cpu than the Athlon64 or Opteron right now. Of couse, a nice RISC cpu would be sweet too! ;o) Lee
On Thursday 16 September 2004 10:25 pm, BandiPat wrote:
=============
Well, it's not just attitude with Asus, they specifically don't like Linux and make their motherboards not to like Linux. That was in the article. That speaks pretty strongly how likely their boards are to be incompatible with Linux. Sorry, I don't remember the url to give you.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a better 64bit x86 cpu than
Would this be the one? http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html Doug
On Thursday 16 September 2004 11:38 pm, Doug B wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 10:25 pm, BandiPat wrote:
=============
Well, it's not just attitude with Asus, they specifically don't like Linux and make their motherboards not to like Linux. That was in the article. That speaks pretty strongly how likely their boards are to be incompatible with Linux. Sorry, I don't remember the url to give you.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a better 64bit x86 cpu than
Would this be the one?
http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html
Doug ==========
Yep, I believe that is it Doug, thanks! Lee
BandiPat wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] [General] Recomended Dual CPU system' on Thu, Sep 16 at 23:03:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 11:38 pm, Doug B wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 10:25 pm, BandiPat wrote:
=============
Well, it's not just attitude with Asus, they specifically don't like Linux and make their motherboards not to like Linux. That was in the article. That speaks pretty strongly how likely their boards are to be incompatible with Linux. Sorry, I don't remember the url to give you.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a better 64bit x86 cpu than
Would this be the one?
http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html
Doug ==========
Yep, I believe that is it Doug, thanks!
Did you read the article? The network interface didn't work properly under Linux or Windows. The article just whines a bunch about how Asus has an official "we don't support OSS Operating Systems" position. If you look at Asus' site, however, you'll find Linux drivers for most of the board components that don't have drivers already built in to the Linux kernel - including that network device. If the *hardware* worked, the network device would work. Anyway, the article is badly written, and states over and over again that Asus hates Linux. Their one fact to back that *opinion* up is a secondhand report from an unnamed OEM, and that one report states that a network interface didn't work properly at all under any OS that they tried, including Windows, which Asus supposedly "supports". To counter that, perhaps I'll post to a SuSE user's group list and mention that every single Asus board I've ever purchased has come with a driver CD. Each and every one of those CDs has had a folder named "linux". Therefore, *I* think that Asus does approve of Linux, and puts some effort into helping the Linux users on their way to getting the board working. They don't provide official, free-of-charge phone support to the hundreds of possible combinations of Open Sourced software, but honestly, that would cost them lots of money and make them almost none. Just read this list for a while to see all of the tech suport questions that leave out vital details like "I changed something I shouldn't have", and imagine that you have to train someone to handle those things for every distribution of Linux, as well as the BSDs, AtheOS, Haiku, and the heap of other free/open OSs out there. Now, if they wouldn't provide drivers or hardware specs, that'd be a different story. I'll bet several people still use nVidia video cards, even though those drivers are officially unsupported... --Danny
On Friday 17 September 2004 12:38, Doug B wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 10:25 pm, BandiPat wrote:
=============
Well, it's not just attitude with Asus, they specifically don't like Linux and make their motherboards not to like Linux. That was in the article. That speaks pretty strongly how likely their boards are to be incompatible with Linux. Sorry, I don't remember the url to give you.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a better 64bit x86 cpu than
Would this be the one?
http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux04/Asus_Sucks_Story-01.html
I haven't really read that but I have two Asus motherboards and I don't really have any problem with them. (Except for the LAN chip on the P4R800-VM.) Besides, when RHEL3.0 was having trouble with the on-board Intel Network Adapter (LAN chip) on the P4C800 Deluxe, I found a driver for it. Guess where? On the Asus site ;) http://www.asus.com/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P4C800-E%20Deluxe Btw, FWIW, I'd still recommend Tyan or Supermicro for servers. Actually, I don't use any other. Besides, I use them for my workstations, too. -- - E - on SUSE 9.1 | KDE 3.3 | ASUS P4C800 Deluxe \ Pentium 4 3.0GHz | Tachyon G9600 PRO-M \ Transcend 2GB RAM | copperwalls was here ;) Just finished installing SUSE 9.1 on a ThinkPad T41 :) "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." - 1 Corinthians 8:1
Fredag den 17. september 2004 03:23 skrev Rikard Johnels:
On Thursday 16 September 2004 23.10, Kolja Kauder wrote:
Rikard Johnels wrote:
<snip>
Intel is after all Intel.. No matter what we say. Sure Xeon is costlier, but if it means a system the is 100% Linux proofed, and stable without risking hardware damage if a fan fails, I'll dish out the money.
Maybe I've missed something but why should a Xeon be any more "100 % Linux proofed" than an AMD CPU?
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan, they had Loads and loads of boards, all almost identical. Couldn't see too much difference in most of them. Asus has always runned nice for me. MSI apparently does dual cpu boards...
I throw in Rioworks HDAMA. We're having no troubles with it here, they use AMD's chipset and it has 4+4 ram sockets.
KK
Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron)
Any issues regarding compatibility etc.?
try the suse-amd64@suse.com list
-- /Rikard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01
------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
On Thursday 16 September 2004 07:23 pm, Rikard Johnels wrote:
Has anyone any of the following systems running under Linux?
Asus - PC-DL Deluxe (Dual Xeon) Tyan - Thunder K8QS Pro (Quad Opteron) Tyan - Thunder K8W (Dual Opteron)
Any issues regarding compatibility etc.?
I'm running 9.1 pro on a dual Opteron machine, Tyan Thunder K8W, here and have had no problems at all. It actually cost me less to buy the system from Monarch Computer (www.monarchcomputer.com) than I was able to find the components to build it myself from vendors I trusted. -- Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all its students.
On Friday 17 September 2004 04:50, Rikard Johnels wrote: [...]
The question is; what motherboard manufacturer shall i look at? I took a peek at Tyan,
+1 :) -- - E - on SUSE 9.1 | KDE 3.3 | ASUS P4C800 Deluxe \ Pentium 4 3.0GHz | Tachyon G9600 PRO-M \ Transcend 2GB RAM | copperwalls was here ;) Still couldn't find time and $$ for my Trinity i875P (S5101) :( "He that is slow to anger is abundant in discernment, but one that is impatient is exalting foolishness." - Proverbs 14:29
On Thursday 16 September 2004 16:42, Andrew McCall wrote:
IIRC the Athlon is a ridiculously scalable processor. I believe you could theoretically run over ~128 together.
There isn't a motherboard that can actually do this, but I think this scalability has been built in to the chip since the very early days.
As far as I remember even the K6-II or K6-III had the capability to run in a dual config, but thit was never officially claimed or supported by AMD, and there were never any motherboards for it. The first Athlons were definitely dual capable, but again, no mobo. There are several hardware tweaker/guru sites that used put pretty much all the socket A CPUs (i.e. from the Spitfire core Durons and T-Bird Athlons to the Barton core Athlons) in dual motherboards. Some required some hardware modding, but all worked well. I've seen a board with two 1Ghz Durons in, that performed really really sweet. -- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za
participants (13)
-
- Edwin - -
Allen Carpenter -
Andrew McCall -
BandiPat -
Danny Sauer -
Doug B -
Hans du Plooy -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
Johan Nielsen -
John Andersen -
Kolja Kauder -
Mike -
Rikard Johnels