On 15/12/09 03:33, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* lynn [12-14-09 11:26]:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer?

Define "use openSUSE on just a single computer".

That is, on a computer which is not married nor in any relationship with other - same sex or otherwise - computers. OK? BC -- If you don't succeed you run the risk of failure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 13:49 -0600, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* N B Day [12-14-09 14:22]:

...

I'm considering converting my wife's play and writing computers to Linux Mint for a couple of reasons:

3, I've already done this for several friends.

You might have a quick look at puppy-linux. Minimal/easy install and very little overhead. Thanks.... I think I played with that a little during the big-Katrina-hole-in-my-life tour four years ago; maybe time for another look.

The name Puppy might be a problem for a couple of my users who fancy themselves to be cowboys. I guess I could re-package it as BigMeanDog Linux and no one would know. Would the putative nerd-who-comes-after-me know what to do with it? A marketing opportunity! Package something appropriate for sale in western wear, feed stores and motorcycle shops: real men aren't Microsofties,they use BigMeanDog. One thing I know for sure: openSUSE may be all kinds of wonderful but it absolutely confounds new and non-technical users. I've learned this the hard way. The default to KDE 4 is part of the problem right now (and I dread Gnome 3.0). It doesn't look/act like anything they've ever seen. Non-technical folks don't see this as an adventure, they want their AOL back. The advantage of Mint is that everything is pre-installed (including the illegal codecs) and the defaults are sensible enough that cowboys, wives and girlfriends can be doing useful stuff in a hour. Maybe there's some Irish solidarity going on too.... -- N. B. Day 39° 28.3964' North, 119° 48.6346' West, 1403m up Aurelius up 2 days 2:14, 2 users, load average: 0.07, 0.24, 0.19 2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop x86_64 GNU/Linux openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 13:23, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Monday 14 December 2009 23:21:18 N B Day wrote:

...

The default to KDE 4 is part of the problem right now

Please, give details.

I was going to ask the same thing. In all cases so far when I've shown KDE4 to new users - these are people green to Linux overall, or ones coming from KDE3 who are totally non-technical, they really like KDE4. No one so far has rejected it. I give them the choice... a few pick Gnome... most pick KDE4. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 14:21 -0800, N B Day wrote:

The advantage of Mint is that everything is pre-installed (including the illegal codecs) and the defaults are sensible enough that cowboys, wives and girlfriends can be doing useful stuff in a hour.

Maybe there's some Irish solidarity going on too....

I am surprised there is not already an Irish distro complete with dual language ability English / Gaelic complete with log in screen showing a complete Ireland all in green, no separate color for the partition, a damn stupid idea if there ever was one, with a choice of MP3 start up music. There is a local group here in California called the Fenians whose drummer, nick name Animal after the Sesame Street character for reasons of resemblance and style of play, who can sing Danny Boy acapella o so sweet as to have the girls crying. http://www.thefenians.com/ CWSIV -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 05:37:47 John Andersen wrote:

On 12/14/2009 8:23 AM, lynn wrote:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer? Lynn

I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to ask, hence all the smart ass replies.

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me. Thanks. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 10:11 +0100, lynn wrote:

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 05:37:47 John Andersen wrote:

...

On 12/14/2009 8:23 AM, lynn wrote:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer? Lynn

I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to ask, hence all the smart ass replies.

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me.

My laptop runs Linux. And, strange but true, the computer we have set up for my wife's parents runs Linux. It is mainly for the web (especially banking) and a few linux games. Works great. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

...

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me.

My laptop runs Linux. And, strange but true, the computer we have set up for my wife's parents runs Linux. It is mainly for the web (especially banking) and a few linux games. Works great.

Hi everyone. That's great news. I thought Linux was destined for running networks and that's all it was used for. To actually use it and nothing else for a laptop is a great idea. I suppose it has all the applications you need. We use openeoffice. It is not publicised at all here in Spain.

In my home I have 3 computers... - my main desktop which is running Linux (oS11.2 + KDE4). This one acts as my regular day-to-day desktop for home use (web browsing, gaming etc) as well as a central repository for my video collection, and my work computer (when I work from home 1 to 3 days per week) - my second computer is a mini bookshelf computer - also running Linux (oS 11.0 since it has an old ATI video card and this is the last oS release that works well on it using the ATI binary video drivers). - my netbook (Asus EeePC 1005HA-H) which is running oS 11.2. In all cases none of these machines are running Windows (although I do have Windows 7 on an isolated hard drive on my main computer that I can boot to if I want to test something... maybe once per month at most). I use VirtualBox with WindowsXP and Windows7 for cross platform application testing. My only office suite is OpenOffice.org I'm not the only one who is doing this either. My manager (at the office) uses only Ubuntu (he's not an oS fan). A friend in the NL uses only oS on his laptop, and he's set up his father's computer with Ubuntu. Another friend is running oS (various versions) on 4 home computers... two used almost exclusively for gaming, one is a multimedia center running oS11.1 + XBMC, and the fourth is running oS 11.1 as the base OS with WinXP in a VM for things like Photoshop etc. Another friend runs LinuxMint on all his computers. Just a couple of examples... basically I know a lot of people who are running various Linux distros as the only OS on their desktop, laptop and netbook computers. Only a couple are hardcore geeks. the rest are just average home users who, made the transition to Linux and are not looking back. Also, it's not uncommon for me to be riding on the train to work and see someone working on their laptop that's running Ubuntu - I see a lot of people running Ubuntu Studio actually... all look to be University students... most working on docs in OOo while commuting. Another example... a local doctor's office provides a computer in the waiting room for the patients to surf the web... it's running openSUSE. i noticed it this summer when I was there for an appointment. Despite people claiming that Linux only has less than 1% of the computer market... I think the reality is a lot different. I see Linux used all the time... everywhere I go... even the grocery store near my house is using Linux on the cash register thing.. a Point of Sale application of some sort. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi Clayton.  Don't know where you are but in my part of the world that doesn't happen. It's very encouraging though. L x

My observations are spread mainly across Germany, the Netherlands and the UK. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Tuesday, 2009-12-15 at 13:31 +0100, lynn wrote:

...

...

Hi Clayton. Don't know where you are but in my part of the world that doesn't happen. It's very encouraging though.

No, it varies a lot. I found a coworker that had installed ubuntu on his personal portable, on his own. He is not "technical". And double boots to windows something. I was quite surprised.

Another day, a computer maintenance person (windows) was talking on the phone to somebody who complained that on his new computer the "office" had stopped working. When he hung up, I commented to him about installing openoffice instead... and he new what I was talking about. We commented that portables often come with office "demo" preinstalled. It works for a month or two, then one day it stops working and you have to pay the license if you want to use it. Owners are very surprised at this when it pops up.

You know why windows is so prevalent here? If you haven't noticed yet, Windows is free⁽¹⁾ software here ;-P

So yes, openoffice is known here. I use it myself exclusively, at home. Recently I installed it for a coworker who lost Office that way. But many people don't care, they just install free office instead (free: see above). Often schools install OOo.

- - ⁽¹⁾ Gratis.

The canonical "Free as in beer." There's an ad in the linux magazines lately proudly proclaiming their product is "Free as in beer" and there's a picture of a stout looking fellow holding a nice mug of beer. I always laugh. It's a perfect example of marketing people not knowing the product they are selling or the people they are trying to sell to and thus saying things that are the exact opposite of appealing to their intended audience. Most people reading a linux magazine will have some understanding of the difference between "Free, as in speech." vs "Free, as in beer.". And so they know the pitfalls of free as in beer and they _hate_ free as in beer. It's one of the core tools behind much that is wrong with the software wold today. It's what keeps inferior products like Microsoft's in dominance. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 13:51:35 James Knott wrote:

Well, you're well aware of OpenSUSE and I suppose you may have a spare computer handy. Why not just give it a try as a desktop OS. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Hi James, Hi everyone. I use desktop computers at work so I know they work on a network. The three laptops I tried: eeeps, acer one and hp pavillion would not connect to Internet with opensuse even after several hours downloading with a wired connection and booting from the 11.2 kde live usb memory stick. Pull the wire and the wireless is useless unless you have several more hours to search how to do it. I can get a wired connection to a Desktop computer on the network in a few minutes by setting the squid port on the client using Yast. I suppose that's what prevents many from using it at home. But I've not given up yet. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 18:34:24 James Knott wrote:

lynn wrote:

...

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 13:51:35 James Knott wrote:

...

Well, you're well aware of OpenSUSE and I suppose you may have a spare computer handy. Why not just give it a try as a desktop OS. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Hi James, Hi everyone. I use desktop computers at work so I know they work on a network. The three laptops I tried: eeeps, acer one and hp pavillion would not connect to Internet with opensuse even after several hours downloading with a wired connection and booting from the 11.2 kde live usb memory stick. Pull the wire and the wireless is useless unless you have several more hours to search how to do it. I can get a wired connection to a Desktop computer on the network in a few minutes by setting the squid port on the client using Yast. I suppose that's what prevents many from using it at home. But I've not given up yet. L x

Curious. I've had no problems at all with WiFi or ethernet on any computer I've worked on. I regularly use WiFi on my ThinkPad and my Eee PC came with Linux already installed. I also have a Nokia N800, which runs Linux and WiFi works fine with it too (no wired ethernet on that device).

Also, I upgraded the WiFi NIC on my ThinkPad from one that only did 802.11b and replaced it with one that does b & g. Linux had no problem recognizing the new card, but I had to download a driver to get XP to use it.

You've been lucky. All have them had wifi that opensuse recognised. That's not been the case with me. Nor many others I think. Lynn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 19:07:23 Anton Aylward wrote:

lynn said the following on 12/15/2009 12:10 PM:

...

Hi James, Hi everyone. I use desktop computers at work so I know they work on a network. The three laptops I tried: eeeps, acer one and hp pavillion would not connect to Internet with opensuse even after several hours downloading with a wired connection and booting from the 11.2 kde live usb memory stick.

Did you try this at work? Maybe there is something about the setup there, routers, firewall, proxy, that your IT department have already loaded (or downloaded at boot) onto your work computers that would need to be set manually on a Linux platform. After all, out of the box, Linux doesn't respond to all those centrally managed things that are used on Microsoft Networks to make all this transparent to the corporate users.

Enquiring minds ...

Hi. I am the IT department at work. I tried the laptops there and an eeepc at home with no firewal, nis nor nfs nor proxy. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 18:10 +0100, lynn wrote:

I use desktop computers at work so I know they work on a network. The three laptops I tried: eeeps, acer one and hp pavillion would not connect to Internet with opensuse even after several hours downloading with a wired connection and booting from the 11.2 kde live usb memory stick. Pull the wire and the wireless is useless unless you have several more hours to search how to do it. I can get a wired connection to a Desktop computer on the network in a few minutes by setting the squid port on the client using Yast. I suppose that's what prevents many from using it at home. But I've not given up yet.

first know your network card model and chipset if you can. sometimes you must use ndswrapper as I had to do with a B/G card. It could be as simple as b/g conflict you system was either B or G and work had the other. -- _______ _______ _______ __ / ____\ \ / / ____|_ _\ \ / / | | \ \ /\ / / (___ | | \ \ / / | | \ \/ \/ / \___ \ | | \ \/ / | |____ \ /\ / ____) |_| |_ \ / \_____| \/ \/ |_____/|_____| \/ | \ /|\ || |\ / |~~\ /~~\ /~~| //~~\ | \ / | \ || | X |__/| || |( `--. |__ | | \| \_/ / \ | \ \__/ \__| \\__/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Le mardi 15 décembre 2009 12:58:06, lynn a écrit :

...

...

...

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me.

My laptop runs Linux. And, strange but true, the computer we have set up for my wife's parents runs Linux. It is mainly for the web (especially banking) and a few linux games. Works great.

Hi everyone. That's great news. I thought Linux was destined for running networks and that's all it was used for. To actually use it and nothing else for a laptop is a great idea. I suppose it has all the applications you need. We use openeoffice. It is not publicised at all here in Spain. L x

Hi again, I don't know if it still true, but years ago I read that Spain was one of the first european country to use Linux for its administration. (see http://lwn.net/Articles/41738/). So, I was more thinking of the need to convince France, UK, Danemark (see a post about Copenhague meeting on this mailing list) or other european countries than Germany or Spain which has already move towards the use of OSS. Cheers Matthias -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 16/12/09 04:17, Matthias Titeux wrote:

Le mardi 15 décembre 2009 12:58:06, lynn a écrit :

...

...

...

...

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me.

My laptop runs Linux. And, strange but true, the computer we have set up for my wife's parents runs Linux. It is mainly for the web (especially banking) and a few linux games. Works great.

Hi everyone. That's great news. I thought Linux was destined for running networks and that's all it was used for. To actually use it and nothing else for a laptop is a great idea. I suppose it has all the applications you need. We use openeoffice. It is not publicised at all here in Spain. L x

Hi again,

I don't know if it still true, but years ago I read that Spain was one of the first european country to use Linux for its administration. (see http://lwn.net/Articles/41738/).

So, I was more thinking of the need to convince France, UK, Danemark (see a post about Copenhague meeting on this mailing list) or other european countries than Germany or Spain which has already move towards the use of OSS.

Ce`? I think that you should read this- http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/french-army-sides-with-mozilla-in-... BC -- If you don't succeed you run the risk of failure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I think that you should read this-

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/french-army-sides-with-mozilla-in -email-war-20091211-kn3k.html

BC

Hi, I knew about this one, and surely a lot of armies in the world used OSS to derive software for their own use (opensource means that the code has been completely audited...and can be edited to fit your needs). Sometimes, this effort can profit to people. I was more talking about administrations, schools, academic institutions where MS software is dominant and where a good IT politic could save a lot of money. Apart some features existing only on MS office, a lot persons could use open office instead. And for windows licenses, a lot of people just need a computer to surf the net, send e-mails and write/read letters, spreadsheets.... no need of proprietary softwares. Some people tell me that we would have to teach them how to use linux.... well see my previous answer to Lynn. If someone has never use a computer before, using linux is not more complicated than using windows (once the system id correctly setup). And anyway, our institutions pays to teach their employee how to use MS software ! They can pay someone to teach them how to use OSS instead ! And if this effort is made in schools, in no time young peoples will be trained to use linux... I am not saying that we must banish proprietary softwares from our schools or administrations, but since we pay them, and that there is good (sometime better) free alternatives, a good politic is to consider these alternatives and use only proprietary software when needed (specific uses). Cheers Matthias -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Le mardi 15 décembre 2009 10:11:10, lynn a écrit :

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 05:37:47 John Andersen wrote:

...

On 12/14/2009 8:23 AM, lynn wrote:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer? Lynn

I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to ask, hence all the smart ass replies.

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me. Thanks. L x

My computer (the one i am writing this answer from right now) runs linux for 6 years, no dual boot with windows, but a win XP virtual machine for some apps though. At home I have 2 laptops (a 15'4 inches laptop and a 10 inches netbook) who both runs OpenSUSE (11.1 and 11.2). I have also 2 desktops, one has only linux (openSUSE 11.1) and one runs both openSUSE 11.1 and windows XP (wintendo box ;-)). My mother in law (63 btw), uses a computer with openSUSE 11.1 (no MS crap). She had no computer knowledge before, and it helps a lot ! She wasn't corrupted by windows habits and can very easily and simply uses her linux computer to surf the net, send emails and chat with her granddaugthers in the USA using skype (we live in France). On top of that I don't have to bother about viruses or malwares, and her computer is rock solid. (Yeah I know, no operating systems is completely secure, but a linux puter behind a good router is safe enough for any personal use, with windows you must add extra safety). And you know what, she is not the only one, I installed a similar system for the mother of a colleague of mine. Same story, computer rock solid, no maintenance and mine colleague is a Mac-addict and know nothing about PCs (windows or linux). So yes there is people who use linux on a daily basis at home and even people with very limited knowledge with computers. Does it answer your question ? (which I did not understand at a first glance). Cheers Matthias PS: on this mailing list it was expected that A LOT of people answer the same. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

lynn wrote:

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 05:37:47 John Andersen wrote:

...

On 12/14/2009 8:23 AM, lynn wrote:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer? Lynn I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to ask, hence all the smart ass replies.

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me. Thanks. L x

We still don't know what the heck you were asking! Ask a meaningless question and you can only get meaningless answers. John actually tried to be nice and explain the problem and you still didn't help. What is the question? -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

After installing the new Thunderbird from the Suse repositories my unread folders now turn this light green color until I click on them, they are very hard to read with this color. I tried adding a user profile (userChrome.css) and adding a few things there that was suggested but that does seem to have any affect. I have tried looking in the manual but that just seems to be a dictionary of terms. Does anybody have a clue as to how to change this color? -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is Robert Cunningham Sr. Physics Laboratory Coordinator /RSO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 12/15/2009 04:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Tuesday, 2009-12-15 at 15:06 -0500, Robert Cunningham wrote:

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After installing the new Thunderbird from the Suse repositories my unread folders now

Please, don't hijack threads. In this one we are talking about Lynn's question:

...

Subject: Re: [opensuse] Linux on a single computer

http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Sorry about that I thought I was posting a new subject I just cut and pasted the suse address I didn't know it carried over all the info with it R Cunningham -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

lynn wrote:

the answers have been excellent and helped a lot. Certainly several people have aired their views. Views which are not available locally to me. Reassurance that I install it and it works would be nice. With wired connections on a network opensuse is fine. It works well and Yast is excellent. What it doesn't do is work on laptops.

Uh, it works very well on our laptops here. We've got three IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads, all have been running openSUSE since 10.2. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On December 16, 2009, Per Jessen wrote:

lynn wrote:

...

the answers have been excellent and helped a lot. Certainly several people have aired their views. Views which are not available locally to me. Reassurance that I install it and it works would be nice. With wired connections on a network opensuse is fine. It works well and Yast is excellent. What it doesn't do is work on laptops.

Uh, it works very well on our laptops here. We've got three IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads, all have been running openSUSE since 10.2.

I've had no trouble with the HP NC4400 with Intel wireless. Did have some with the Pavilion, but the usb Ethernet adapter worked so I could download the correct driver. SuSE tries to load the r8169, but the r8168 is the one that works. I've had a few dual boot machines since 2000, they are used mostly for my daughters games (purchased at garage sales), and for emergencies when I do not have time to deal with a compatibility issue (usually openOffice/word). -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Another point : in my experience, wireless support in OpenSuSE, when used in conjunction with a wired connection, requires some manual manipulation (i.e., the TCP/IP stack won't automatically "switch" to using the wireless upon disconnecting the LAN cable) -- I usually deal with it by manually doing a "ifdown eth0" (that's the wired one) followed by an "ifdown wlan0 / ifup wlan0" (that's the wireless). This issue may be due to the specificities of my setup though. YMMV.

Have you tried that with oS 11.2? On my netbook running one 11.2 and using KNetworkManager (using the ath9k WiFi driver), the switch over from wired to wireless is perfect... if I'm on wireless and I plug in a network cable, it takes a couple seconds, and I see a popup on my KDE4 taskbar letting me know it's connected via the wired NIC... I unplug, and it notifies of the disconnect, and swaps over to my WiFi... which takes a little bit longer to connect than the wired because it has to negotiate the WEP part. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:04, Philippe Andersson wrote:

...

On my netbook running one 11.2 and using KNetworkManager (using the ath9k WiFi driver), the switch over from wired to wireless is perfect... I'm an old-fashioned guy, I don't use NetworkManager ;-)

I never used to either. in fact 11.2 is the first time I've given the NetworkManager any test at all - basically because of the new netbook. I started with the old standby of ifup, ifdown etc, and while that works... it's a real pain when you're moving from one access point to another while on the road/conference hopping etc. I switched over to the NetworkManager and was pleasantly surprised. It's still not 100% but it's close. I have a small minor intermittant issue after wakeup from suspend where WiFi speeds are sometimes quite slow after a reconnect. Worth a look.. especially on a laptop. Desktop/server etc with fixed network connections it's not so interesting. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that PCLinuxOS is the only one that does. L x

I'll have to disagree with that. The problem with wifi cards is that very often a specific firmware is required in order to make it work in Linux. And this is not distribution specific but affects all flavors of Linux. I think it's a legal thing: they're not allowed to include the firmware. Take my Dell Vostro 1400 for example - while my wifi card was recognized out of the box it didn't work. I had to run /usr/sbin/install_bcm43_firmware first, a skript which a Windows driver, extracts the firmware, loads the proper wrappers and modules, and voila: wireless worked. Depending on your wifi chip you might need a different firmware, but I can assure you that so far, I've had Linux (not necessarily openSUSE) running on about a dozen laptops and somehow always got wireless to work. It does need some work, sometimes more, sometimes less, but in general it works. On that note: we're running about four dozen company laptops with openSUSE, most of them still with 10.3. Three different brands/models are currently in use: IBM Thinkpads (T61), older Terra Notebooks, and a few Lenovo IdeaPad S10. I have to admit that the IdeaPads took quite some time until they ran and supported everything a laptop is supposed to support, like standby, hibernation, energy saving techniques, multimedia buttons, wifi, UMTS via express card, etc. Personally, I run openSUSE 11.2 on a Dell Vostro 1400 and an MSI Wind, and have in the past used different flavors of Linux on different brands and models, from cheap Acer laptops to very expensive Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebooks. Martin -- Rieke Computersysteme GmbH Hellerholz 5 D-82061 Neuried Email: martin@rhm.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:51, lynn wrote:

Despite what I can read here and it has been very informative (I thank you all) opensuse is not ready for the laptop market. It may work, but that's not good enough.

If you're talking openSUSE 11.1 and older.. I would agree with you.. getting everything to work on a laptop was a bit of a hassle to say the least... but, so far, my experiences with 11.2 are excellent. So far, every computer I've installed it on has just worked (as long as there wasn't an ATI card in the machine, but that's a different issue). On previous releases, getting WiFi to work was a challenge at best... on 11.2, it's just worked... granted, I do take the time when I'm shopping to buy a laptop with a known working WiFi card... I don't just buy random hardware and expect it to work.. that's no different than say.. buying a Mac to run OSX, or being selective about hardware that works with Windows 7 (if you have older hardware, you can pretty much forget about it working with Windows 7 in my experience, just as you will have issues with random unsupported hardware in Linux). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:21:01 lynn wrote:

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 11:42:37 Martin Jungowski wrote:

...

...

What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that

PCLinuxOS is the only one that does. L x

Take my Dell Vostro 1400 for example - while my wifi card was recognized out of the box it didn't work. I had to run /usr/sbin/install_bcm43_firmware first, a skript which a Windows driver, extracts the firmware, loads the proper wrappers and modules, and voila: wireless worked. Martin

Exactly. It didn't work. You had to run /usr/sbin/install_bcm43_firmware first. How could anyone know about that without hours of searching? Did openSUSE tell you to do that or did you have to look it up yourself? How did you know to do that?

Despite what I can read here and it has been very informative (I thank you all) opensuse is not ready for the laptop market. It may work, but that's not good enough. L x

Having previously used Mandriva before moving to openSuse 10.3, I had already been through the firmware stuff and had it sitting on my HDD. When I installed 10.3, it wanted to enable the wireless network to find updates and add additional repositories. During the *install*, I switched to a text console, copied the firmware files into /lib/firmware and then switched back to the installer and let it continue. It enabled the wifi and I had full connectivity during the remainder of the install process. That was with 10.3 and I had *never* had wifi work without much more manual intervention up until then. I've not had a problem with it since, with either the Intel wireless chipset in my work laptop or the Broadcom/Linksys pc card in my home laptop. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 11:48:18 Daniel Bauer wrote:

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 10:57:52, lynn wrote:

...

the answers have been excellent and helped a lot. Certainly several people have aired their views. Views which are not available locally to me. Reassurance that I install it and it works would be nice. With wired connections on a network opensuse is fine. It works well and Yast is excellent. What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that PCLinuxOS is the only one that does. L x

I have opensuse 11.2 running on two HP Pavillon Laptops, one some years old and a brand new one. I installed it from downloaded DVD and everything just worked out of the box, except that for the new Laptop there was a minor bug with the sound that was solved within 48 hrs (!!!) after the bug report.

Both wireless and wired connections worked out of the box.

Even all this special stuff, like the hardware multimedia buttons, touchpad on/off, webcam, USB-TV-stick just worked without changing or adjusting any settings... It's fantastic! In fact, it's the first time, I could install a Linux so completely easy and fast.

I also installed it on a brand new cheap OS-less no-name PC: insert DVD, click, runs - everything, no exceptions!

Meanwhile I updated to KDE 4.3.4 and my skepticalness about KDE 4 ended up in smoke (I smoke a lot). It even works perfect on a old machine, but there without the 3D effects (transparency etc.).

I am not a typical "fan", but I can really recommend this OS. Its better than anything I've ever seen before (computer related, I mean ;-) ). I use my PCs for work (photography, web design, php/data base programming). My friend who insisted on buying Crossover Office and a licensed M$-Office when I first installed a Dell-Laptop with 10.3) now only uses OpenOffice and the expensive M$-programs were not moved to his new laptop anymore...

Unfortunately I needed to buy an XP CD and use it in a VirtualBox because of my camera manufacturers bad habit to deliver Mac and W software only. But since I can cut and paste between the VirtualBox window and the rest of my machine and use shared folders, it's not really a problem - except that I have to double-click within XP...

So, sorry: cannot report anything bad here...

kind regards

Daniel

Well, I must just be unlucky. Meanwhile I'm going to stick with a wired connection. Many of the posts I see here and on the opensuse forum are about getting opensuse wifi to work on laptops. I have a spare old dell gx260 and enough room on my desk at home. So I'm going to do an experiment. I'm going to install 11.2 on it and use it for a week. And nothing else. No kubuntu, no xp.See how I get on. Linux is all I use at work so it should be no problem I simply hadn't realised that so many people here seem to do that. Cheers from Lynn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 13:07:56 Clayton wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:59, lynn wrote:

...

I have a spare old dell gx260 and enough room on my desk at home. So I'm going to do an experiment. I'm going to install 11.2 on it and use it for a week. And nothing else. No kubuntu, no xp.See how I get on. Linux is all I use at work so it should be no problem I simply hadn't realised that so many people here seem to do that.

What video card does that machine have? Intel 845G? ATI Radion 7500? If it's the ATI one (some GX260s were shipped with the ATI 7500) you will not be able to use the ATI Linux binary driver... it has never supported the 7500.

C.

Intel. It's fine. But thanks for the warning. ATI ot recommended then. Noted. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 10:35 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

GX260 Radeon 7500s work just fine for people who only need their puters for getting work done and thus no need for 3DFX bling and closed source drivers. They do work better than 845G video, so I use them in other systems by pulling them from the Dells during refurb.

The need for bling is no longer limited to fancy desktop effects. Try using google map without it. I use it in my work. I am also starting to come across data viewing apps that are using libraries that require accelerated graphics. Of course, this is not unexpected. It has always been said the the bling is not the point. The point it to make all software take better advantage of the graphics hardware. That is starting. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2009/12/16 17:02 (GMT+0100) Clayton composed:

OK, you can easily argue that these apps are not "necessary" to do "real work" whatever that is.. but in Lynn's case, it's a test for Linux as a home computer, not a server, not a "work" computer.

So puters in homes are all toys? No one who uses a puter at home uses it for work? A computer is by design a tool. Some use the tool for playing games. Many don't. When I buy a tool, I expect it to continue to function as when new for a very very long time. Granted, puters are not as long lived as Craftsman or Snap On, but nevertheless they shouldn't become obsolete from mere passage of time. They shouldn't need to be replaced before they die of natural causes. Forced advanced retirement is an ecologically bankrupt paradigm. Web sites requiring bling haven't yet enabled accessibility. Every (e.g. Flash, theoretically accessible-enabled, but not in the wild) one I've ever been to is unusable even with required plugins or enabled 3DFX hardware. All make everything too small to use on a high resolution screen or by someone who needs text at least as large as their browser's default and images big enough to be recognizable as what they purport to depict. -- " We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2009/12/16 17:32 (GMT+0100) Clayton composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

So puters in homes are all toys? No one who uses a puter at home uses it for work? A computer is by design a tool. Some use the tool for playing games. Many don't.

All I meant was that the typical home computer does more than work. people tend to like to explore more than the terminal window, and read webmail.

Family trees Banking Investing Twittering/Facebooking Telephony Researching Writing Many things to use a home puter for besides email not needing 3DFX.

...

On, but nevertheless they shouldn't become obsolete from mere passage of time. They shouldn't need to be replaced before they die of natural causes. Forced advanced retirement is an ecologically bankrupt paradigm.

But.. they do. The theoretical "usable" lifetime of a computer is about 18 to 24 months at best. Yes you can use an older computer, but you are rapidly left in the dust as the rest of the world moves on, and less and less of the new features. Yes a 5 year old computer will still work, and will still do the basics, but if you want to move beyond the basics you're going to struggle.

Must be nice to be rich and care not about the ecology. That new technology advances rapidly is not justification to shut doors on the poorer who must make things last respectably.

...

Web sites requiring bling haven't yet enabled accessibility. Every (e.g. Flash, theoretically accessible-enabled, but not in the wild) one I've ever been to is unusable even with required plugins or enabled 3DFX hardware. All

Did I mention websites? Nope. I pointed to a few specific applications that specifically require or work better on video hardware that is OpenGL capable.

I wouldn't know about applications requiring state of the art hardware. My work is keeping old hardware working for those who can't afford better, and those who respect the ecology, and without suffering the risks of M$-targeted malware. -- " We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 17:20:59 Felix Miata wrote:

On 2009/12/16 17:02 (GMT+0100) Clayton composed:

...

OK, you can easily argue that these apps are not "necessary" to do "real work" whatever that is.. but in Lynn's case, it's a test for Linux as a home computer, not a server, not a "work" computer.

Well expressed. Maybe that's what I should have included in the original post. That's what it's become for me. OK Update. I installed 11.2 from the kde live cd on a dell gx260. I have Internet and kde4. I am 4 hours into the install and cannot change the screen resolution beyond 800x600 on a 1440x900 flat screen, (there seems to be no option in Yast anymore to be able to do this) I cannot play videos and my (given old) quickcam express doesn't work. kmail was easy. Next I must install the packman repository or find the opensuse one click install for the codecs or mplayer or WHY. I now have a home computer running Linux on a single computer. I never thought I'd get this far. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 12/16/2009 12:36 PM, DenverD pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

lynn wrote:

...

OK Update. I installed 11.2 from the kde live cd on a dell gx260. I have Internet and kde4. I am 4 hours into the install and cannot change the screen resolution beyond 800x600 on a 1440x900 flat screen, (there seems to be no option in Yast anymore to be able to do this) I cannot play videos and my (given old) quickcam express doesn't work. kmail was easy. Next I must install the packman repository or find the opensuse one click install for the codecs or mplayer or WHY. I now have a home computer running Linux on a single computer. I never thought I'd get this far. L x

if you have nvidia graphics go to http://en.opensuse.org/Nvidia (do not use the easy way, do it the hard way because that is easier in the long run (otherwise you get a black screen every time the kernel is updated)

Not if you have the Nvidia repo setup correct, it will update the driver with the kernel. The caveat is to make sure the Nvidia repo has been updated first. And not every kernel update requires an update to the Nvidia driver. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 19:00:19 Clayton wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 18:16, lynn wrote:

...

OK Update. I installed 11.2 from the kde live cd on a dell gx260. I have Internet and kde4. I am 4 hours into the install and cannot change the screen resolution beyond 800x600 on a 1440x900 flat screen, (there seems to be no option in Yast anymore to be able to do this) I cannot play videos and my (given old) quickcam express doesn't work. kmail was easy. Next I must install the packman repository or find the opensuse one click install for the codecs or mplayer or WHY. I now have a home computer running Linux on a single computer. I never thought I'd get this far.

YaST does nto have a video setup option anymore. you should, in theory only need to go to KMenu > Configure Desktop > Display adn set things up there. If you cannot go beyond 800x600, you may be in one of those "corner cases" that was discussed - I think on the Factory mailing list where the autodetect doesn't work right... if this is the case, this needs to be fixed.

Videos.. known issue (depending on what videos you are trying to play), and it affects all Linux distros that stay on the legal side of the line. Add the ccommunity repositories and do an update.. you should get everything pulled in (Flash support etc.) You may need to add a few of the GStreamer typse (good, bad, ugly) to get full codec support. Media players are up to you... i have good success with MPlayer, some people prefer Xine or one of the other players.

C.

Thanks for the tips. I now have youtube and flash from the repo you described I had to click accaptance check boxes. Is that correct? I've got Mplayer and vlc from packman too. Still nothing beyong 800x600. I am totalling up the hours it has spent to get this far on a single computer and whether anyone else without my opensuse list knowledge would be able to get anywhere near it in 6 hours. Still trying. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 20:46:30 Clayton wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 20:02, lynn wrote:

...

Thanks for the tips. I now have youtube and flash from the repo you described

Flash should be automatically installed the first time a user runs the software installer after the initial install.

...

I had to click accaptance check boxes. Is that correct?

Yes, it's normal.

...

I've got Mplayer and vlc from packman too. Still nothing beyong 800x600. I am totalling up the hours it has spent to get this far on a single computer and whether anyone else without my opensuse list knowledge would be able to get anywhere near it in 6 hours. Still trying.

6 hours is roughly what it takes me to get a Windows machine up and running... that's installing the OS, and then endlessly trawling the internet looking for drivers for each bit of hardware I've got connected. openSUSE takes me 15 to 20 minutes to install (at the most), and then a couple minutes to set up the Community repos, and do the initial updates (which automatically include the Flash player and a few other odds and ends). Then I install my preferred media players (although the defaults work just fine as well)... plus a few other apps I like to use. Total install is under an hour.

Your video issue... that would be interesting to sort out. Guessing here... one of two things.. the video driver being used for the video isn't capable of going above 800x600 (unlikely) or the monitor isn't being autodetected correctly (most likely). Have you tried KMenu > Configure Desktop > Display and seeing if you can set it to a higher resolution?

Webcam.... if the webcam supports the UVC standard (almost all new webcams do http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ ) then it's pretty much plug it in and it'll "just work". If it's an older webcam, it'll be somewhat hit and miss if you will ever get it working.

C.

Sax2 fixed it. I now have 1024x760. It's not brilliant but it's acceptable. Webcams: That's a great site you mention. Some of those webcams are available for less than 20 Euros at my local hypermarket. Thanks. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:49, Felix Miata wrote:

1440x900 was the last of the common widescreen modes to arise, so the oldest of video BIOS won't have it included. A GX150 definitely is not 1440x900 capable in Windows, but IIRC is in openSUSE back around 11.0 or before, and thus should be for a GX260.

Ahh good point... didn't think of that. Hmmmm does this point to a potential problem now that sax2 is being shelved? With odd combinations like a widescreen monitor on older video hardware... is this a case of "not going to work"? C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 22:08:32 James Knott wrote:

Clayton wrote:

...

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 19:49, Felix Miata wrote:

...

1440x900 was the last of the common widescreen modes to arise, so the oldest of video BIOS won't have it included. A GX150 definitely is not 1440x900 capable in Windows, but IIRC is in openSUSE back around 11.0 or before, and thus should be for a GX260.

Ahh good point... didn't think of that.

Hmmmm does this point to a potential problem now that sax2 is being shelved? With odd combinations like a widescreen monitor on older video hardware... is this a case of "not going to work"?

C.

Quite so. It looks like a lot of monitors will be 1080p now. It'd be a good "standard" resolution to have.

I copied /etc/X11/xorg.conf from a computer at work (the same GX260 with Intel) and ran sax2. I now have 1024x768 but it's not selectable from KDE4. KDE4 says it's still 800x600. Anyway, that's good enough. I can't spend any more time on the installation. I now have opensuse running on a single computer, something I did not think possible. Thanks everyone. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed 16 Dec 2009 at 14:02:15 (-0300 UTC), Clayton wrote:

The open source ATI drivers do work for basic stuff, but so far, I've not had much good success with them on the apps that need more graphics capabilities. For example, on 11.2 on my system with the ATI 1250, using the community drivers (only option now with that card), I get loads of graphics artifacts - something that was reported on the list already.

C.

Wonder if, when purchasing a new laptop to be used with Linux in general and openSUSE in particular, must I be aware to the video card manufacturer? Right now I have an HP DV6230BR, which is equipped by a Nvidia GeForce Go 6150 and since openSUSE 10,3 it never caused problems. Several new HP laptop models are now provided with ATI Radeon HD 4200: are there any issues related to this video card? Cheers, -- Marco Calistri <amdturion> In good speaking, should not the mind of the speaker know the truth of the matter about which he is to speak? -- Plato -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 17:25, Marco Calistri wrote:

Wonder if, when purchasing a new laptop to be used with Linux in general and openSUSE in particular, must I be aware to the video card manufacturer?

Always. Video cards vs. what you plan to do with the computer regardless of desktop or laptop is important.

Right now I have an HP DV6230BR, which is equipped by a Nvidia GeForce Go 6150 and since openSUSE 10,3 it never caused problems.

Several new HP laptop models are now provided with ATI Radeon HD 4200: are there any issues related to this video card?

ATi is dropping support for older video cards with each new release of their binary drivers. If your computer use requires the features and functionality that the closed binary drivers provide (eg OpenGL support), then you really need to think seriously if you're getting any computer with an ATI video card. ATI's total disregard for their customers applies to all operating systems... not just Linux. They've pushed pretty much all but the more recently released cards into "legacy" status. With the Windows drivers, you still can use these older cards and the Windows legacy driver because the Windows deals with drivers differently. With Linux, your ability to use the ATI Legacy Linux drivers is tied to specific kernel versions and distro releases - this has been discussed a lot here on the mailing list. The open source community drivers for ATI are coming along, and they do work, but if you need more than the basic functionality, they you're not going to be happy with the results... maybe in a year or two things will be better... who's to say where the community driver development will get to. Basically... given all the trouble ATI has caused me, I will never buy another one of their video cards again in any computer.. desktop laptop, or whatever. nVidia, and even something as basic as an Intel GM945 are better choices. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 16 December 2009 17:02:15 Clayton wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 16:48, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

...

...

GX260 Radeon 7500s work just fine for people who only need their puters for getting work done and thus no need for 3DFX bling and closed source drivers. They do work better than 845G video, so I use them in other systems by pulling them from the Dells during refurb.

The need for bling is no longer limited to fancy desktop effects. Try using google map without it. I use it in my work. I am also starting to come across data viewing apps that are using libraries that require accelerated graphics. Of course, this is not unexpected. It has always been said the the bling is not the point. The point it to make all software take better advantage of the graphics hardware. That is starting.

Yup.. desktop effects are only a small portion of what uses the accelerated graphics capabilities.. XBMC for example.. it won't start for me unless I have the binary drivers installed.. MythTV performance is horrible until accelerated graphics capable drivers are installed. GoogleEarth is another... there are a lot more.

OK, you can easily argue that these apps are not "necessary" to do "real work" whatever that is.. but in Lynn's case, it's a test for Linux as a home computer, not a server, not a "work" computer.

The open source ATI drivers do work for basic stuff, but so far, I've not had much good success with them on the apps that need more graphics capabilities. For example, on 11.2 on my system with the ATI 1250, using the community drivers (only option now with that card), I get loads of graphics artifacts - something that was reported on the list already.

C.

No problem here. Dell 260's Intel graphics work as of xorg last January. It was an opensuse update. We only use openoffice. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

lynn said the following on 12/16/2009 04:57 AM:

[...] What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that PCLinuxOS is the only one that does.

I'll have to try PCLinuxOS then :-) I run openSuse ONLY on laptops. The under-the-desk machine runs Mandriva. Historic reasons and laziness Yes, laptops are going to be problematic with *any* version of Linux because of the compromises vendors make. Particularly with video and wifi. Pull that Broadcomm card and replace it with an Intel one. Well maybe. This is an old Presario with a Radeon X300 and BCM4306. Both work OK with 11.1. Yes, the BCM was a B*gg** to get working under 11.0, but after installing 11.1 I decided to be proactive, and I googled "opensuse broadcom", followed the first link it gave me and carried out the instructions there under the section "Manual Installation". This is a pretty intolerant list compared to some I'm on, but I'm surprised there isn't a lot more questions answered with merely "go google". Yes, its sometimes difficult to get the right keywords and sometimes you get too much information to choose from, but that was a no-brainer. Given all that, openSuse is not a light-weight version of Linux. This may be an old laptop but it was one of the first "desktop replacements". I doubt if I could run it on one of the old laptops I have in my basement. But do try PCLinuxOS. Maybe I will too. -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. -- Thomas A. Edison -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

PCLinuxOS (or 'Pee-kloss,' as my Father calls it) is an excellent distribution, especially the 'Gnome Edition.' Very crisp and shiny, if that's what you're looking for. It definitely works great with little-to-no modifications/tweaking required. However, it is FAR from being the only distribution of Linux that will run on a Laptop. In the realm of laptops, I have a Dell Inspiron, a Gateway and a Toshiba Satellite; various flavors of Linux run just fine on all of them. These include: Ubuntu 9.10, Ubuntu Studio, Mint, Fedora 11 (and later 12), PCLOS Gnome Edition, Sabayon and others. They have all run fine on the various laptops. I've yet to put openSUSE on a laptop, although we do have three openSUSE servers at work. Therefore I can't speak for openSUSE on laptops. As a sidebar, I highly recommend Ubuntu Studio on a laptop to those who are in need of a robust portable recording studio, graphics design or video editing workstation. All the tools you need in a single (visually appealing) place. --James L. George -----Original Message----- From: lynn [mailto:lynn@steve-ss.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:58 AM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Linux on a single computer On Tuesday 15 December 2009 20:41:32 Anton Aylward wrote:

Brian K. White said the following on 12/15/2009 02:16 PM:

...

We still don't know what the heck you were asking! Ask a meaningless question and you can only get meaningless answers. John actually tried to be nice and explain the problem and you still didn't help. What is the question?

Reading "between the lines" and considering Lynn's comments, I suspect she simply doesn't believe people use Linux. She's said she's never seen anyone using it and her efforts to run it at work via a USB stick met with connectivity problems.

I think she wants reassurance.

the answers have been excellent and helped a lot. Certainly several people have aired their views. Views which are not available locally to me. Reassurance that I install it and it works would be nice. With wired connections on a network opensuse is fine. It works well and Yast is excellent. What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that PCLinuxOS is the only one that does. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by or to others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I have been running OpenSuse on six different laptop models from Dell and Sony for 5 years now, and usually could get both wireless and basic graphics to work without much trouble (never had to try to use 3D or anything similar). I use it extensively for work, which for me is scientific research. I even successfully supported two opensuse laptops for psychologists that collaborate with us who have never seen anything but Windows before that. So it can definitely run on laptops ;-) Myrosia On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mark Misulich wrote:

On Thu, 2009-12-17 at 12:00 -0500, James George wrote:

...

PCLinuxOS (or 'Pee-kloss,' as my Father calls it) is an excellent distribution, especially the 'Gnome Edition.'  Very crisp and shiny, if that's what you're looking for.  It definitely works great with little-to-no modifications/tweaking required.

However, it is FAR from being the only distribution of Linux that will run on a Laptop.  In the realm of laptops, I have a Dell Inspiron, a Gateway and a Toshiba Satellite; various flavors of Linux run just fine on all of them.  These include:  Ubuntu 9.10, Ubuntu Studio, Mint, Fedora 11 (and later 12), PCLOS Gnome Edition, Sabayon and others.  They have all run fine on the various laptops.  I've yet to put openSUSE on a laptop, although we do have three openSUSE servers at work.  Therefore I can't speak for openSUSE on laptops.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend Ubuntu Studio on a laptop to those who are in need of a robust portable recording studio, graphics design or video editing workstation.  All the tools you need in a single (visually appealing) place.

--James L. George

-----Original Message----- From: lynn [mailto:lynn@steve-ss.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:58 AM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Linux on a single computer

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 20:41:32 Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Brian K. White said the following on 12/15/2009 02:16 PM:

...

We still don't know what the heck you were asking! Ask a meaningless question and you can only get meaningless answers. John actually tried to be nice and explain the problem and you still didn't help. What is the question?

Reading "between the lines" and considering Lynn's comments, I suspect she simply doesn't believe people use Linux.  She's said she's never seen anyone using it and her efforts to run it at work via a USB stick met with connectivity problems.

I think she wants reassurance.

the answers have been excellent and helped a lot. Certainly several people have aired their views. Views which are not available locally to me. Reassurance that I install it and it works would be nice. With wired connections on a network opensuse is fine. It works well and Yast is excellent. What it doesn't do is work on laptops. It looks from below that PCLinuxOS is the only one that does. L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by or to others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.

Hi, I have run opensuse on three laptops, serially.  It works fine on laptops.  I have tried various other distros, and some have pre-installed drivers for the wlan that makes for an easier laptop installation.  But I have always managed to get the wireless working with a little effort to find help in the opensuse forum or this mailing list for every version from 10.1 to 11.1.  Opensuse has more options available to the user and is a premier distro.

Mark

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Brian K. White wrote:

lynn wrote:

...

On Tuesday 15 December 2009 05:37:47 John Andersen wrote:

...

On 12/14/2009 8:23 AM, lynn wrote:

...

Does anyone here use openSUSE on just a single computer? Lynn I'm pretty sure that's not what you intended to ask, hence all the smart ass replies.

Care to try again?

No that's fine. Let them be smart, They've all helped me enough in the past and they all know what I want to ask. I've never seen a laptop or anyones computer at home running Linux. But you've just enlightened me. Thanks. L x

We still don't know what the heck you were asking! Ask a meaningless question and you can only get meaningless answers. John actually tried to be nice and explain the problem and you still didn't help. What is the question?

Ok, by now, not because you said anything clearly, but because of deduction and inference, I guess you are asking about one or all or some combination of personal use, home use, desktop use, and/or maybe stand-alone use (no network). None of which are necessarily a "single computer". It used to be common for a small business to have only a single computer and that was none of personal, home, or desktop, although they were often stand-alone, and it seems like although that is the answer to the question you actually asked, it's not what you were actually interested in. And you are right, despite someone here claiming they've had magic working wifi on every pc they've touched, wifi IS often a problem on Linux. Pretending otherwise doesn't do anyone any good. If they have been lucky and have a well supported chip and are running a well-working desktop that successfully automates the setup for them, well that's nice. But it doesn't mean that there aren't a zillion other cases where it's either impossible or impractical to get wifi working. And 2 minutes of testing doesn't cut it either. I have a Vaio P that wifi technically works on. It was very easy to get up & running. But it's an ath9k chip and the current native driver is buggy and locks up in minutes to seconds. (known issue, not just me or my hardware). There is another older driver, but it's anyones guess how to use the old driver on current ubuntu. I have tried to follow the docs but they're either incomplete or obsolete because they don't work as written. (I have ubuntu on that device. I doubt opensuse is immune from other wifi annoyances of it's own even if it turns out to handle ath9k ok. The argument applies to _linux_. Aside from that you have things like broadcom that were until recently legally prohibited from releasing documentation on their chip, or open source code to drive it, because the chip is capable of doing more than wifi and can be used to receive and transmit in proscribed military and other official radio bands (in the USA anyway). There are always things like that. Same with almost any other hardware. Until linux actually commands major desktop market share, hardware vendors are not going to invest in supporting platforms that most of their customers do not use. It's idiotic to forget that basic law and pretend it doesn't still exist just because some hardware works ok. Using ndiswrapper to run the windows driver is not a good solution or system. It mostly works, but it's garbage that that's the only way many cards can work. If you, regardless of technical proficiency, tried and failed to get wifi working without unusual effort, and you can in other contexts (say, in windows) then that is all the proof that needs to exist to validate the statement that wifi is a problem on linux. It's the very definition. If you want to use linux as a personal desktop, you need to think ahead and research your hardware compatibility before you buy it. Windows is the exception case. Everything made, is expected to run under windows, so on windows, you can just buy any hardware and expect it to work. On linux, unless you are willing to put up with struggle, you need to make sure all the hardware will work on linux before you buy it. Not buy it and then be stuck when the wifi or the backlight or the video card etc... turns out not to work. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 15:05 -0500, Brian K. White wrote:

Using ndiswrapper to run the windows driver is not a good solution or system. It mostly works, but it's garbage that that's the only way many cards can work.

It is not garbage its a hack because the vendor is uncooperative with our community when they should open up and welcome our help in both working with their hardware and improving the software. -- _______ _______ _______ __ / ____\ \ / / ____|_ _\ \ / / | | \ \ /\ / / (___ | | \ \ / / | | \ \/ \/ / \___ \ | | \ \/ / | |____ \ /\ / ____) |_| |_ \ / \_____| \/ \/ |_____/|_____| \/ | \ /|\ || |\ / |~~\ /~~\ /~~| //~~\ | \ / | \ || | X |__/| || |( `--. |__ | | \| \_/ / \ | \ \__/ \__| \\__/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org