Marc Chamberlin said the following on 02/05/2011 08:37 PM:
Yeah, like I said, I am guessing on a lot of this.. This setting in particular just boggles my mind and leaves me shaking my head with wonder at how Linux gurus have come to love such obtuse parameters... I have NO idea what devmode, busmode, and listmode mean! Don't want to know, and don't want to have to learn. I just want an easy to use interface with a simple model on how to establish and set permissions! So yeah, I get aggressive about shutting off security whenever I encounter it. LOL Sorry, I'm a command line guy. I think that the GUIs you find friendly hide the details that I want to see. With the command like I can go anywhere, do anything, see everything. With the GUI I can only see and do what the GUI designer decided to let me see and do.
I'm sure that if you keep flipping between Dolphin and Yast systemsettings and other things that are GUI you can do all this, with pretty icons and pull down lists. In whatever colour scheme and icon scheme you like. When it comes to the command line v.s. GUI arguments I am an atheist myself. I have seen lots of bad command line interfaces as well as lots and lots of bad GUI's. Yes, I agree, command line interfaces do allow
On 2/5/2011 6:21 PM, Anton Aylward wrote: the user to do anything, BUT they also require that the user grok a whole lot more up front, before successfully using said commands. Think about all those parameter many commands come with (such as what precipitated this email exchange) and how much (if available and up to date) outside documentation one must wade through to understand em and to determine what is relevant! Many GUI developers fail to address and even realize that a well designed GUI has one important feature that makes it, in general, a better interface for human operators. A well designed GUI should not simply present a small subset of a tools capabilities, it should act as a teacher and a guide, helping a user to advance to ever more powerful features and options, as he needs and comes to understand the model behind the tool and it's capabilities. GUIs should NOT hide advance and powerful capabilities, but instead present things to a user so as to educate, presenting the more common/easy and most likely relevant things at first for beginners, and organize/hide but not remove access to the advance features that can overwhelm them.. A really well designed GUI will allow a user to do anything that a command line version of a tool can do, with a much better presentation and organization. But with so many bad GUI's around, and difficult to grok command line tools, I remain agnostic...
And when you shut off security all over the place you are going to end up with other troubles.
If you keep saying you want to be ignorant then you'll find people her reluctant to help you.
The security is there for a purpose, as even Microsoft is now admitting. See my previous comments about security v.s. usability... Perhaps I overstated things a bit, I don't necessarily want to be ignorant, what I really want are easy consistent models to grok and follow, especially for accomplishing basic conceptual tasks such as transferring files from one device to another. If the security is easy to deal with then yes I want to leave it in place. But if it is becoming a significant hurdle, difficult to comprehend and difficult to set up right then I tend to try and simply disable it so I can move on. Security through obscurity is one of the worse things developers do to systems these days, and Microsoft IMHO is the worst offender, but Linux does not seem to be too far behind... Sorry if my frustrations with it was showing, I will try to keep an open mind...
We are getting off topic now so I will digress and move on... Marc..
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