On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 05:30:54AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-29 21:10, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 03:25:38PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I don't care where sda2 is mounted, because the name sda2 IS NOT GUARANTEED stable.
Actually it is. sda2 will always be sda2 until you make a change in the bios.
Nope.
It is the first device on your sata chain.
which changes when you hotplug another device.
No it doesn't. but this is a useless discssion at this point. You don't need a guarantee anyway. That is utter nonsense. What you need is a bios and system that behaves as programmed and is predictable. This idea that everytime you turn your computer on you have no idea where your hard drives show up untrue. Learn how your hardwae works or take a computing class.
BTW - why are you rebooting the system?
I don't, in weeks. When I do, it is because updates force me, or because the kernel crashes.
It does for you. My workation uptime prior to the 13.1 upgrade was over 19 months. I think my housekeeper disconnected it on accident. This can be quite entertaining. Without changing your hardware, I want you to reboot your system 30 times and tell use the number of times each device shows up on each device node. Then, if it changes as you say, please break down the statistical frequency of /dev/sdx or /dev/sgx or whatever. Please inform us of the bios you are using and the current hardware configuration. If it is all true, as you describe, I'd like to avoid that broken hardware configuration. A computer that can't be guaranteed to find the MBR is certainly worthy of a class action lawsuite of some sort. If the bios doesn't remember where its hardware is, that is bad.
Oh, yes, it does. I have been tracking certain issue which has been solved recently, but the patch has not yet been published as an update.
then perhaps you should consider BS, solaris, whatever, or not upgrade Linux.
(If you want to complain about this, complain to Linus himself)
I WILL talk to him about this and other things the next time I see him.
Ok. Please post the video, I want to see it.
I repeat: if I use names like sda2 in my fstab, my machine will boot one day, and not the next.
Not if I was running it.
I dare you.
It is not reliable for every machine. It is static only for machines with static hardware config.
Yeah, so let me get this straight. You hardware is not in a static configuration so you break the software?
I don't break software nor hardware. It is designed to work this way, and it works just fine.
It has been stable now for 2 decades.
You are free to contribute to the kernel and make it work properly, if you think you can. I'm sure they'll welcome your ideas.
Well, try fixing your hardware... then because sda is assigned by the bios. [ 1.621444] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 488281250 512-byte logical blocks: (250 GB/232 GiB) [ 1.621511] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off [ 1.621514] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00 [ 1.621543] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA [ 1.667459] sda: sda1 sda2 sda4 [ 1.667893] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
/var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.732770] scsi 8:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA ST3500418AS CC37 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738473] sd 8:0:0:0: [sda] 976773168 512-byte logical blocks: (500 GB/465 GiB) /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738491] scsi 8:0:1:0: Direct-Access ATA ST3500418AS CC37 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738606] sd 8:0:1:0: [sdb] 976773168 512-byte logical blocks: (500 GB/465 GiB) /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738637] sd 8:0:1:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.7> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738638] sd 8:0:1:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.738652] sd 8:0:1:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-09-26 15:38:55 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.766596] sd 8:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:--
/var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 0.989913] scsi 2:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA ST31000528AS CC46 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 0.994784] sd 2:0:0:0: [sda] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/931 GiB) /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 0.999616] sd 2:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.6> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 1.000212] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=05e3, idProduct=0608 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.6> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 1.000213] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=1, SerialNumber=0 /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:<0.6> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 1.000214] usb 1-2: Product: USB2.0 Hub /var/log/messages-20141001.xz:--
Two different entries for sda within days, and the first "ST3500418AS" is my boot disk, which I have not changed in months. Not the disk, nor the cable, board, bios config, anything.
I booted on 2014-09-26 15:38:54. I needed to copy something to an external disk, so I connected in on the caddy, made the copy, and did not extract the disk, there were more things to do. I stopped the machine on 2014-09-30 14:47:03 Started it again on 2014-10-01 22:22:32
Why did I boot, you ask? Maybe because I went on a field trip to check flood damage that afternoon. No kidding, I just looked up my logs. Emergency. As it turned out, I came back much sooner than expected. You ask too much. Why do I boot? Because I wish to!
The 1 TB HD was still on the caddy, and it takes precedence in BIOS over the boot disk, it appears earlier, and it is named sda... still, the machine boots without a complain, and everything mounts fine. I don't even notice that what on 2014-09-30 was sda, on 2014-10-01 was... wait:
<0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.742632] scsi 8:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA ST3500418AS CC37 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 <0.6> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.745320] ata10.01: configured for UDMA/133 <0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.753744] sd 8:0:0:0: [sdb] 976773168 512-byte logical blocks: (500 GB/465 GiB) <0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.753775] scsi 8:0:1:0: Direct-Access ATA ST3500418AS CC37 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 <0.5> 2014-10-01 22:22:35 Telcontar kernel - - - [ 2.753874] sd 8:0:1:0: [sdc] 976773168 512-byte logical blocks: (500 GB/465 GiB)
sdb. Or perhaps sdc :-P
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org