[opensuse-project] What is the rationale for changing repo addresses?

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Carlos E. R.

2 Oct 2010 2 Oct '10

13:04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Recently, somebody enough "high up" has decided to change the address of the "source" repository for 11.2 (one of the official repos). This has resulted in many users broken packagekit, zypper or yast, because although disabled, the repository was left by the default installation on "refresh". And of course, those that made the decision to migrate from 'http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/' to 'http://download.opensuse.org/source/11.2/repo/oss' are not those handling the questions of many users "borked" installs: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=447447 11.2 oss repo' PackageKit error View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=447433 Repository error - oss source http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-help-here/looking-something-other-tha... Thread: source repo down? http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-help-here/looking-something-other-tha... Thread: What Happened to the OSS and Non-OSS Source Repos for 11.2? Me, that I'm an experienced user, took a full day to decide that this was not a temporary hiccup (there have been a few recently) but that something was really broken and that I had to investigate. Took a few minutes to repair once I knew, of course. Just imagine the pain on those less experienced. I fail to see this decission announced in "opensuse-announce" mail list or forum. I thake this point here, to project, because any change done can do damage to others. This was done without forethought for our users. It was not even announced! I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro. Or, design some method to communicate a message to zypper from the server about those changes. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkynLdcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XTpgCcCMUSj8OfON57n4Eh53g1rKcY VrMAnR89pkPlNFSEMYqUMaPll1bIfYm5 =V94I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

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Rajko M.

2 Oct 2 Oct

15:30

On Saturday 02 October 2010 08:04:17 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Hi,

Recently, somebody enough "high up" has decided to change the address of the "source" repository for 11.2 (one of the official repos). This has resulted in many users broken packagekit, zypper or yast, because although disabled, the repository was left by the default installation on "refresh". ... I thake this point here, to project, because any change done can do damage to others. This was done without forethought for our users. It was not even announced!

I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro.

We don't have web links policy that will prevent changes on any server in the infrastructure, announced or not. Problem is that we don't have web link creation guidelines that one can read before creating the link. The result is that links are created without thoughts on their longevity and as consequence there is a need to change them from time to time. The example is recent wiki reconstruction efforts that resulted in a lot of broken links. We should start using portals as reference, instead of direct links to pages. That will create fewer pages that must have stable links and we will have lesser problems later when time comes to change names of articles again. Having central navigation points is one of methods that mitigates problem, but it must be used to be effective.

...

Or, design some method to communicate a message to zypper from the server about those changes.

The redirect on the server to new location will suffice. It will work with or without announcement. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 10:30 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Saturday 02 October 2010 08:04:17 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro.

We don't have web links policy that will prevent changes on any server in the infrastructure, announced or not.

The problem is that this particular change affects all new installs of 11.2 (at least). Just imagine a chap, new to linux and/or opensuse, testing 11.2, and crash! During install, testing of repos fails. Later, every half an hour pops an error of the updater in the middle of the desktop. And he can not install anything. And he did not configure any repo! Even if it is not enabled by default, the refresh is active by default, and it fails. Ignoring is not that easy, you have to select ignore half a dozen times.

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Problem is that we don't have web link creation guidelines that one can read before creating the link. The result is that links are created without thoughts on their longevity and as consequence there is a need to change them from time to time.

If there is a need to change, don't change. >:-)

...

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Or, design some method to communicate a message to zypper from the server about those changes.

The redirect on the server to new location will suffice. It will work with or without announcement.

That can be a solution. If it works. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyndG8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WuUwCfXYSvUSX+O87w74eGxEaR1mgB fukAnjbw0oOL5k5NxyhHbjMUYN3Vkbmt =3qn0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

18:25

On Sat, Oct 02, 2010 at 08:05:28PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 10:30 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Saturday 02 October 2010 08:04:17 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
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I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro.

We don't have web links policy that will prevent changes on any server in the infrastructure, announced or not.

The problem is that this particular change affects all new installs of 11.2 (at least). Just imagine a chap, new to linux and/or opensuse, testing 11.2, and crash! During install, testing of repos fails. Later, every half an hour pops an error of the updater in the middle of the desktop. And he can not install anything. And he did not configure any repo!

Even if it is not enabled by default, the refresh is active by default, and it fails. Ignoring is not that easy, you have to select ignore half a dozen times.

it was actually a bug, and it just got fixed. Ciao, Marfcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

20:48

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 20:25 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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it was actually a bug, and it just got fixed.

Thanks! And this will break, again, all "repaired" installations. We'll sacrifice for the good cause. Who is making the announcement this time? ;-) (No updates in the bugzilla yet, by the way) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkynmp8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UkVACfb8BgM2GMjfrX7ol+A32hPNaQ VNcAoIeInQ5MohYtcjNgR54QSfbadob4 =Q4xe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

3 Oct 3 Oct

06:30

On Sat, Oct 02, 2010 at 10:48:24PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 20:25 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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it was actually a bug, and it just got fixed.

Thanks!

And this will break, again, all "repaired" installations. We'll sacrifice for the good cause.

Who is making the announcement this time? ;-)

(No updates in the bugzilla yet, by the way)

It was the _source_ rpm repo. I guess the number of people using it is quite small. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

17:11

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 08:30 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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It was the _source_ rpm repo. I guess the number of people using it is quite small.

Not true. You are still missing the point. The default 11.2 installation left that repo: a) not enabled b) auto-refresh enabled. Notice (b), it means: All default 11.2 installations try to refresh the sources repo. That is the problem you miss, that's what caused the impact to 11.2 users. It does not impact 11.3, afaik. So, please, announce these changes. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyouU4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UmJACfT/SzGu4waTLegCTo8bvyU41T ZTUAoILteS1UFNbCdVa6M0VpfFe4jHmg =tJD4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

jdd

17:16

Le 03/10/2010 19:11, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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So, please, announce these changes.

couldn't a soft link on the server fix the problem? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

17:26

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 19:16 +0200, jdd wrote:

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Le 03/10/2010 19:11, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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So, please, announce these changes.

couldn't a soft link on the server fix the problem?

The problem has been fixed, the change reverted. But the biggest issue is that the changes were not announced. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyovNAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UETgCgl47vD8WXgAHEqKHzK9pZoADq RcgAnA20J6K6US4s16JkdtvpkfmkfgoL =FzbC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Stephan Kleine

21:39

On Sunday October 3 2010 19:26:39 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 19:16 +0200, jdd wrote:

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Le 03/10/2010 19:11, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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So, please, announce these changes.

couldn't a soft link on the server fix the problem?

The problem has been fixed, the change reverted.

But the biggest issue is that the changes were not announced.

It was a bug, if anyone would have known it, to properly announce it, it wouldn't have happened in the first place... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

4 Oct 4 Oct

00:01

* Stephan Kleine [10-03-10 17:42]:

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On Sunday October 3 2010 19:26:39 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 19:16 +0200, jdd wrote:

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Le 03/10/2010 19:11, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...
So, please, announce these changes.

couldn't a soft link on the server fix the problem?

The problem has been fixed, the change reverted.

But the biggest issue is that the changes were not announced.

It was a bug, if anyone would have known it, to properly announce it, it wouldn't have happened in the first place...

*This* time was a bug. The problem is not just *this* instance, but *all* of the instances of changing repositories, disappearing or changing accresses. A central location needs to exist with notice and history so the changes may be followed. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

03:24

On Sunday 03 October 2010 19:01:00 Patrick Shanahan wrote: ...

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*This* time was a bug. The problem is not just *this* instance, but *all* of the instances of changing repositories, disappearing or changing accresses. A central location needs to exist with notice and history so the changes may be followed.

... and that should be place that one doesn't need to subscribe to get notice, just link that can be checked at will. Something like recent changes page on the wiki. For those that want to be in the loop, still without real subscription there are https://hermes.opensuse.org/feeds . -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

08:47

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 22:24 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Sunday 03 October 2010 19:01:00 Patrick Shanahan wrote: ...

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*This* time was a bug. The problem is not just *this* instance, but *all* of the instances of changing repositories, disappearing or changing accresses. A central location needs to exist with notice and history so the changes may be followed.

... and that should be place that one doesn't need to subscribe to get notice, just link that can be checked at will. Something like recent changes page on the wiki. For those that want to be in the loop, still without real subscription there are https://hermes.opensuse.org/feeds .

Some people asking about this problem didn't know the repo had migrated. They thought suse was down, or their installation was broken, and asked for help. It should be YaST itself who should discover the info. At least give a helpfull message pointing the user to a web page with information - and then pray that page is not migrated again! - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyplIsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UgYgCbBGT9q1WH8Mu2tDkK//abrXV8 1OkAmQF2+WfiETr/PHh0I34TRR0kKWxo =lHQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

5 Oct 5 Oct

02:43

* Carlos E. R. [10-04-10 04:48]:

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On Sunday, 2010-10-03 at 22:24 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Sunday 03 October 2010 19:01:00 Patrick Shanahan wrote: ...

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*This* time was a bug. The problem is not just *this* instance, but *all* of the instances of changing repositories, disappearing or changing accresses. A central location needs to exist with notice and history so the changes may be followed.

... and that should be place that one doesn't need to subscribe to get notice, just link that can be checked at will. Something like recent changes page on the wiki. For those that want to be in the loop, still without real subscription there are https://hermes.opensuse.org/feeds .

Some people asking about this problem didn't know the repo had migrated. They thought suse was down, or their installation was broken, and asked for help.

It should be YaST itself who should discover the info. At least give a helpfull message pointing the user to a web page with information - and then pray that page is not migrated again!

<quote> for another example, from opensuse-kde: Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:12:11 -0800 From: s2_johnm To: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse-kde] what happened to 11.2 KDE stable 4.4 / unstable playground repo? http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Unstable:/Playground/openSUSE... _Distro_Stable/ ..has disappeared. The kde repo web page refers to it: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#Stable_.28KDE_SC_4.4.29 ? thanks -john </quote> Why is this happening? also: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/UNSTABLE:/Desktop:/ We *need* a central location where new and removed repos are documented and a history maintained. When someone has been using a repo and it *disappears*, they need information/direction to replace that repo, instead of a list of hundreds of packages that will be downgraded. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

03:59

On Monday 04 October 2010 21:43:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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We need a central location where new and removed repos are documented and a history maintained. When someone has been using a repo and it *disappears*, they need information/direction to replace that repo, instead of a list of hundreds of packages that will be downgraded.

It seems that idea to let YaST/YOU/zypper/etc ask for repos online should be revived. That way when some repo is not online, package manager will go to one or more hard coded servers and pick a new repo. That way changes to repo urls will have lesser influence on user comfort and openSUSE reputation. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

08:15

On 05/10/10 04:59, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Monday 04 October 2010 21:43:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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We need a central location where new and removed repos are documented and a history maintained. When someone has been using a repo and it *disappears*, they need information/direction to replace that repo, instead of a list of hundreds of packages that will be downgraded.

It seems that idea to let YaST/YOU/zypper/etc ask for repos online should be revived.

That way when some repo is not online, package manager will go to one or more hard coded servers and pick a new repo. That way changes to repo urls will have lesser influence on user comfort and openSUSE reputation.

There are many proposals on this topic or repository changes: http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/781 https://features.opensuse.org/310604 We've got the ideas, just need someone to do the work ... Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

11 Oct 11 Oct

01:46

* Patrick Shanahan [10-04-10 22:43]:

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<quote> for another example, from opensuse-kde:

Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:12:11 -0800 From: s2_johnm To: opensuse-kde@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse-kde] what happened to 11.2 KDE stable 4.4 / unstable playground repo?

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Unstable:/Playground/openSUSE... _Distro_Stable/

..has disappeared. The kde repo web page refers to it:

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#Stable_.28KDE_SC_4.4.29

? thanks -john </quote>

Why is this happening?

also: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/UNSTABLE:/Desktop:/

We *need* a central location where new and removed repos are documented and a history maintained. When someone has been using a repo and it *disappears*, they need information/direction to replace that repo, instead of a list of hundreds of packages that will be downgraded.

For another group of repos that have ?disappeared? download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.2_KDE_Distro_Factory/ download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.2/ download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.2_KDE_Distro_Stable/ download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Playground/openSUSE_11.2_KDE_Distro_Stable/ -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

2 Oct 2 Oct

18:51

On Saturday 02 October 2010 13:05:28 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The problem is that this particular change affects all new installs of 11.2 (at least). Just imagine a chap, new to linux and/or opensuse, testing 11.2, and crash!

Eh. Besides it was bug, new chap using sources?! Sources is not enabled by default, one has to enable them to hit the problem. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

4 Oct 4 Oct

08:00

Am Saturday 02 October 2010 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 10:30 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Saturday 02 October 2010 08:04:17 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro.

We don't have web links policy that will prevent changes on any server in the infrastructure, announced or not.

The problem is that this particular change affects all new installs of 11.2 (at least). Just imagine a chap, new to linux and/or opensuse, testing 11.2, and crash! During install, testing of repos fails. Later, every half an hour pops an error of the updater in the middle of the desktop. And he can not install anything. And he did not configure any repo!

People new to linux usually do not register the source repository - otherwise it would have been noticed way quicker ;( Actually I made a mistake while publishing Milestone2 and it was noticed a day later, but the fix was incomplete, so it took til saturday to fix. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

08:42

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 10:00 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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People new to linux usually do not register the source repository - otherwise it would have been noticed way quicker ;(

How many times do I have to explain that this is not true? EVERY user of 11.2 has that repository on AUTOREFRESH active, because that is the default installation? REPEAT: ] Even if it is not enabled by default, the refresh is active by default, REPEAT: ] Not true. You are still missing the point. ] ] The default 11.2 installation left that repo: ] ] a) not enabled ] b) auto-refresh enabled. ] ] Notice (b), it means: All default 11.2 installations try to refresh the ] sources repo. REPEAT: AUTOTRFRESH sources ON by default on all installations of _11.2_ Is it clear now? Ufff... If you don't believe me, just have a look at the links I posted of several threads in the forum, of people having been impacted by this issue for several days. Why on earth would several complete newbees, or a very experienced user like me, be hit by this problem, if it wasn't because autorefresh was on? The impact is lower because it is only on 11.2. On 11.3 the default is different.

...

Actually I made a mistake while publishing Milestone2 and it was noticed a day later, but the fix was incomplete, so it took til saturday to fix.

Ok. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkypk3QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XyfwCfe8I+BhA8nDbSF2+cE+FPGYtC m1oAnRkroKleIrLOuxTTkmmwlbd8OdZS =e3ES -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

09:07

On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 10:42:20AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 10:00 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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People new to linux usually do not register the source repository - otherwise it would have been noticed way quicker ;(

How many times do I have to explain that this is not true?

EVERY user of 11.2 has that repository on AUTOREFRESH active, because that is the default installation?

No, it is not the default installation. /oss/ would be in the default installation, but not /source/. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

09:58

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 11:07 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 10:42:20AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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EVERY user of 11.2 has that repository on AUTOREFRESH active, because that is the default installation?

No, it is not the default installation.

/oss/ would be in the default installation, but not /source/.

WRONG! In 11.2 it has autorefres enabled by default. The repo is disabled, but refresh is enabled. You just install 11.2 and check for yourself. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyppT8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WLtACfTsEAc3ChAYgFkzRJjeCajP1C cP8AnRfYiVlusnPfsnlwvWEiek8Gv2mE =AYTM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

11:17

Am Monday 04 October 2010 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 11:07 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

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On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 10:42:20AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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EVERY user of 11.2 has that repository on AUTOREFRESH active, because that is the default installation?

No, it is not the default installation.

/oss/ would be in the default installation, but not /source/.

WRONG!

In 11.2 it has autorefres enabled by default. The repo is disabled, but refresh is enabled.

Yes, it's added in a disabled state, so it can easily be enabled - but that still leaves autorefresh pointless, because only enabled repos are refreshed, auto- or not. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:56

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 13:17 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Am Monday 04 October 2010 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

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In 11.2 it has autorefres enabled by default. The repo is disabled, but refresh is enabled.

Yes, it's added in a disabled state, so it can easily be enabled - but that still leaves autorefresh pointless, because only enabled repos are refreshed, auto- or not.

Unfortunately, that is not so. Because mine was disabled, and still it was checked by packagekit, YOU, and zypper. This happened to many people, or the avalanche of questions (in the forum) would not have happened. It may be so for 11.3, but not for 11.2. We are talking about 11.2 only. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkypwPcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WbyACfUgREOvsnfTmuHUK4l+ndKtxQ 3A8AnirFqQiO1YLOyMJXmKaHsMqZQGJo =61A1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jean Cayron

13:42

Hye, I can confirm what Carlos says. The source repo is ticked as "refresh" but not as "active". My parents had this bug and I couldn't explain them until today what was wrong (except "wait, a server must be down"). The update applet, when active, refresh ALL repositories with the refresh action enabled and on any failure results (a server is down) in an error message with a button inviting to configure the repos. When you press that button, it gives you the yast module "repositories" with not any repo in it. If then, you go to the Control Center and you choose the Repo module, you'll see all your repos (and there you can disable the wrong one...)! Still another bug... Jean 2010/10/4 Carlos E. R. :

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 13:17 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...
Am Monday 04 October 2010 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...
...
In 11.2 it has autorefres enabled by default. The repo is disabled, but refresh is enabled.

Yes, it's added in a disabled state, so it can easily be enabled - but that still leaves autorefresh pointless, because only enabled repos are refreshed, auto- or not.

Unfortunately, that is not so.

Because mine was disabled, and still it was checked by packagekit, YOU, and zypper. This happened to many people, or the avalanche of questions (in the forum) would not have happened.

It may be so for 11.3, but not for 11.2. We are talking about 11.2 only.

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkypwPcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WbyACfUgREOvsnfTmuHUK4l+ndKtxQ 3A8AnirFqQiO1YLOyMJXmKaHsMqZQGJo =61A1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

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Andreas Jaeger

13:49

On Monday 04 October 2010 15:42:25 Jean Cayron wrote:

...

Hye,

I can confirm what Carlos says. The source repo is ticked as "refresh" but not as "active". My parents had this bug and I couldn't explain them until today what was wrong (except "wait, a server must be down").

The update applet, when active, refresh ALL repositories with the refresh action enabled and on any failure results (a server is down) in an error message with a button inviting to configure the repos. When you press that button, it gives you the yast module "repositories" with not any repo in it. If then, you go to the Control Center and you choose the Repo module, you'll see all your repos (and there you can disable the wrong one...)! Still another bug...

IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jean Cayron

14:03

2010/10/4 Andreas Jaeger :

...

IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this?

Andreas --

But as Carlos says, src repo is not entirely disabled. Each repo has two options: Active/Inactive and Refresh Enabled/Disabled. At installation, the source repo is set as "inactive" but the "refresh" option is enabled. The media as DVD or CD are enabled but the refresh is disabled (as they don't change). If you point out that this default options is a bug, we can report one. But otherwise, it's not a bug to refresh a repo that's set to "refresh enabled". Do you get it? The bug for me, is the fact that if an error occurs with kupdate-applet and that you press on the "setup repos", it get a blank list of repos instead of the actual one. And I'll fill a bug report when I'll have some time home. Cheers, Jean -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

14:28

On Monday 04 October 2010 16:03:52 Jean Cayron wrote:

...

2010/10/4 Andreas Jaeger :

...
IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this?

Andreas --

But as Carlos says, src repo is not entirely disabled. Each repo has two options: Active/Inactive and Refresh Enabled/Disabled. At installation, the source repo is set as "inactive" but the "refresh" option is enabled. The media as DVD or CD are enabled but the refresh is disabled (as they don't change).

If you point out that this default options is a bug, we can report one. But otherwise, it's not a bug to refresh a repo that's set to "refresh enabled". Do you get it?

IMO: Disabled means disabled. A disabled repository should not get any refreshes at all. so, the setup is correct, I don't agree with the interpretation of the flags ;)

...

The bug for me, is the fact that if an error occurs with kupdate-applet and that you press on the "setup repos", it get a blank list of repos instead of the actual one. And I'll fill a bug report when I'll have some time home.

There seems to be more than one bug ;( thanks for reporting with log files, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jean Cayron

8 Oct 8 Oct

09:23

I just filled another bug for the issue of the empty repository list: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=644877 Regards, Jean 2010/10/4 Andreas Jaeger :

...

On Monday 04 October 2010 16:03:52 Jean Cayron wrote:

...
2010/10/4 Andreas Jaeger :

...
IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this?

Andreas --

But as Carlos says, src repo is not entirely disabled. Each repo has two options: Active/Inactive and Refresh Enabled/Disabled. At installation, the source repo is set as "inactive" but the "refresh" option is enabled. The media as DVD or CD are enabled but the refresh is disabled (as they don't change).

If you point out that this default options is a bug, we can report one. But otherwise, it's not a bug to refresh a repo that's set to "refresh enabled". Do you get it?

IMO: Disabled means disabled. A disabled repository should not get any refreshes at all.

so, the setup is correct, I don't agree with the interpretation of the flags ;)

...
The bug for me, is the fact that if an error occurs with kupdate-applet and that you press on the "setup repos", it get a blank list of repos instead of the actual one. And I'll fill a bug report when I'll have some time home.

There seems to be more than one bug ;(

thanks for reporting with log files, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

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Jean Cayron

4 Oct 4 Oct

14:04

2010/10/4 Andreas Jaeger :

...

IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this?

Andreas --

Carlos E. R.

19:19

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-10-04 at 15:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

IMO a disabled repository should not get refreshed at all, so you've find another bug ;-(. Could one of you that notices the refreshing of disabled repos, open a bugreport and attach the zypper or YaST log files (depending whether you called zypp or YaST) so that the libzypp developers can fix this?

Done: Bug 643618 And I found another: When reporting on a bugzilla with an attach, will first upload the file, then complain about a missing item in the form :-( Upload is slow for me. This means two uploads. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyqKL4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VgkACcCzDLAq18Wp/dWrreDaBlhb64 EaMAoJBSxLxYY/m2p491k4dHm7dNgcc9 =O/is -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

2 Oct 2 Oct

15:35

On Sat, Oct 02, 2010 at 03:04:17PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Hi,

Recently, somebody enough "high up" has decided to change the address of the "source" repository for 11.2 (one of the official repos). This has resulted in many users broken packagekit, zypper or yast, because although disabled, the repository was left by the default installation on "refresh".

And of course, those that made the decision to migrate from

'http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/'

to

'http://download.opensuse.org/source/11.2/repo/oss'

are not those handling the questions of many users "borked" installs:

http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=447447 11.2 oss repo' PackageKit error

View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=447433 Repository error - oss source

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-help-here/looking-something-other-tha... Thread: source repo down?

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-help-here/looking-something-other-tha... Thread: What Happened to the OSS and Non-OSS Source Repos for 11.2?

Me, that I'm an experienced user, took a full day to decide that this was not a temporary hiccup (there have been a few recently) but that something was really broken and that I had to investigate. Took a few minutes to repair once I knew, of course. Just imagine the pain on those less experienced.

I fail to see this decission announced in "opensuse-announce" mail list or forum.

I thake this point here, to project, because any change done can do damage to others. This was done without forethought for our users. It was not even announced!

I propose that such changes are forbidden by policy, repository addresses frozen till life end of the distro.

Or, design some method to communicate a message to zypper from the server about those changes.

Perhaps this is just a bug ... Can you open a bugzilla and assign to coolo@novell.com Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:21

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2010-10-02 at 17:35 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

Perhaps this is just a bug ... Can you open a bugzilla and assign to coolo@novell.com

Done. Bug 643361 - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyneB8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X5zgCeMlBfe9h/xPiOg5OcZYRpOTtV pX0An05LruNcK8MtAszL7K6rgWpcI5Ov =JMLD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

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participants (10)

Andreas Jaeger
Carlos E. R.
jdd
Jean Cayron
Marcus Meissner
Patrick Shanahan
Rajko M.
Stephan Kleine
Stephan Kulow
Tejas Guruswamy