Jean Delvare wrote:
Hi Linda,
Le Thursday 06 June 2013 à 06:04 -0700, Linda Walsh a écrit :
ACPI and thermal drivers: * button <<<<<<<<<<<<<# dont' need this one on any system * processor * thermal_sys<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<# nor this one
processor loads without either of them and both are currently unloaded in my system (because they are unused).
Block device drivers * cdrom <<< this one I can use. * scsi_dh<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|#none of these are needed on my systems -- * scsi_dh_alua | # I might be able to use sg & sr_mod * scsi_dh_emc * scsi_dh_hp_sw * scsi_dh_rdac * sg <<<< and maybe these * sr_mod <<<<< two Graphics helper drivers * drm # Don't need any of these * drm_kms_helper * i2c_algo_bit
Filesystem drivers: * fuse # might use these * lockd # I use smb not nfs -- its considerable * sunrpc # faster
CPU drivers: * microcode # it fits my HW, but have never used it
Sound drivers: * pcspkr <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<---# sure * snd # none of the rest V V * snd_page_alloc * snd_pcm * snd_seq * snd_seq_device * snd_timer * soundcore ---------------------------
Those are my 3 computers -- 1 desktop, 1 server, 1 ancient celeron...
Thanks for the feedback, this is appreciated. I'm surprised by a few things though, if you could clarify...
You claim that none of your systems has the "button" driver loaded?
They will load it -- but it isn't needed... it doesn't do anything. They will work w/o it as well (none of mine are laptops).
The processor driver depends on thermal_sys, so you can't have the former without the latter.
---- # ls -d /sys/module/{proc*,therm*} ls: cannot access /sys/module/therm*: No such file or directory /sys/module/processor/ ---- processor is wedged in tight by "acpi_cpufreq", it has a use count of 1 but no user beside it.
No optical drive in any of your systems?
---- See above (graphic was confusing)...
sg is loaded automatically so you certainly have it.
---- Yes.. I just wasn't sure what it was for.
If you don't use drm, does it mean you have binary graphics drivers everywhere?
---- ??? Um... neither of my systems running linux full time run a desktop they both run as servers and only boot up to rc3. My other if it runs linux would try to use a binary nvidia driver... which might use drm, dunno. been a while since I trie.
If you use a non-trivial desktop environment, you certainly use fuse even if you don't know. At least Gnome and Xfce use it.
---- Nope.. don't use it to boot -- which doesn't mean I don't have the ability to modprobe it after the system is up for those things that use it.
Microcode loading is automatic, so you certainly have used it already but you didn't know.
---- I read my boot logs. I don't have any microcode to load.
Seriously... what need to be forced on for built-in are deviced needed to **BOOT** enough so 1 hard disk is loaded and anything else can be picked up off the first hard disk.
This isn't the current strategy for openSUSE kernels, sorry. This has been discussed several times in the past. Long story sort: loading modules takes time and uses extra memory, so building everything as a module is not optimal from a performance point of view.
---- That's just plain not true. My system boots considerably faster if I don't boot things that aren't needed. Microsoft will disagree with you as well as far as user perceptions go and getting to some sort of responsiveness about your system (which isn't the same as talking absolute numbers -- perceptions are what drives the market, not facts).
As a consequence, it was decided that non hardware-specific drivers which are needed on a large majority of systems should be built into the kernel - unless we have a good reason not to.
---- That's why I build my own kernel and have generally until the latest mess with systemd, booted in about half the time as a suse kernel.
It's not about building everything into the kernel. I have established a list of modules loaded on all my machines. Each individual case has been discussed with the interested people and the conclusion is that about only 4 modules in the initial list could be built-in. This isn't a huge number, so I don't think there is anything to be afraid of.
Also note that a few weeks ago I have modularized about 20 drivers which were built-in so far, for specific hardware most people do not have, so it was really wasted boot time and memory for everybody. But nobody (including you) had been paying attention to that before I looked into it. So please don't come and complain now.
---- I didn't complain because they never were in my kernel to begin with ;-). I've been building my own for over 10 years. I have tried using the suse kernel but it was too big, and too slow and had behaviors that were too different from the vanilla kernel to be able to report kernel bugs against it.
Things needed for my main linux system to boot: megaraid_sas, maybe pcieport.
Pcieport is built-in already, megaraid_sas is hardware-specific so it goes to your initrd.
---- This is what I'm trying to get at... doing without a per-system boot-object format that has to be rebuild anytime anything changes in the system startup/bootup env (including the kernel).
So you're building your own kernel? If so, you don't care at all about the changes being discussed here.
---- I do care. I'd love to be able to simplify my process but the complexity of the suse boot process has left my system unstable and unbootable on more than one occasion.
To be honest, I don't know a thing about how MS does it, and to be even more honest (if this is possible), I don't really care.
---- That's unfortunately -- they've done alot of research into what makes users tick and such (but they are throwing it away with ballmer cuz he doesn't give a rats A. about users -- just corporations.)...
Doing that allows you to get booted to a point where you are responsive to the user.
Ah ah, let me laugh, really. You get booted to a point where you see your desktop and a totally unresponsive system because ten dozen services, programs, applets, whatever, are trying to load in the background in a totally uncontrolled way. That is how I'd describe my limited Windows experience (mainly on systems I do not own.)
---- When I see my desktop, it's totally responsive. The unnecessary services are booted in background at low priority. They don't affect foreground services.
Experiments have shown this is exactly the other way around. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing...
---- That's because you are booting with a initrd. Once you've added in that cost, you've hidden most other benefits.. My system would boot from start of unpacking linux to system prompt and all services running in ~25 seconds. That's on a fully loaded server / no desktop. If you add a desktop, that can take alot longer. Ill try to watch out for the formatting... (will run this through vim...)... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org