[opensuse-kde] repo content confusion?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone, this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working). Later I noticed that my keyboard wasn't using the DE layout any more, so I tried to invoke KDE command center to check upon this. But alas, the was only a popup that no views were found, and because of that nothing is displayed. And Kcc closed. Again, I'm swiching back to KDE:Release:46. Shift-Alt-F12 didn't help this time ;-). I'm in the office and need a working PC. I'll try 47 again this evening, when I'm back home... BTW, whenever I get a notice window from KDE, it's quickly followed by a crash window telling me that the notice window can't be displayed (though it is). Using a fresh profile didn't help. I do not have this behaviour at home... What might be the reason? Regards, Werner -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5vEYAACgkQk33Krq8b42OARgCfQQslbcxWIvcykt1z6K+THHZc H1gAmwemSdWx25b5Y2BjKxuVBcqyob7n =AFX7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 13/09/11 09:17, Werner Flamme wrote:
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Hi everyone,
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Later I noticed that my keyboard wasn't using the DE layout any more, so I tried to invoke KDE command center to check upon this. But alas, the was only a popup that no views were found, and because of that nothing is displayed. And Kcc closed.
Again, I'm swiching back to KDE:Release:46. Shift-Alt-F12 didn't help this time ;-). I'm in the office and need a working PC. I'll try 47 again this evening, when I'm back home...
BTW, whenever I get a notice window from KDE, it's quickly followed by a crash window telling me that the notice window can't be displayed (though it is). Using a fresh profile didn't help. I do not have this behaviour at home... What might be the reason?
Regards, Werner -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAk5vEYAACgkQk33Krq8b42OARgCfQQslbcxWIvcykt1z6K+THHZc H1gAmwemSdWx25b5Y2BjKxuVBcqyob7n =AFX7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- If it's any interest to you. I still didn't update (even though I already have R47 kde4.7.0) It's really only partially supplying 4.7.1 Rolling back to the R46 may be your best option ATM
Regards Carl (aka caf4926) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 09/13/2011 10:24 AM, Carl Fletcher wrote:
On 13/09/11 09:17, Werner Flamme wrote:
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Hi everyone,
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now. Regards. -- İsmail Dönmez - openSUSE Booster SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now.
AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx. Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF. So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date. KRx is meant to be stabler than KDF, so advertising a less stable repo does not make sense IMO. Of course one might argue that KR47 is just a copy of KDF – but that's simply because it's actual purpose is not followed. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Hi Sven; On 09/13/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now.
AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date.
I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software. Regards. -- İsmail Dönmez - openSUSE Booster SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 12:01:36 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software.
By definition something that is worked on on a daily basis cannot be as stable as something which is left alone until the next minor upstream release. KDF gets more stable if an openSUSE release is due but otherwise it is patched and worked on and thus not stable – even if faulty patches are removed within days. In theory KRx is supposed to be a once in a month updated repo. Also, KDF's KDE version will freeze at some point even though upstream continues to release further minor versions e.g. for KDE 4.7. So at that point users will have to switch away from KDF simply because it is stalled to KDE 4.7.x and does not get any but a few, i.e. major and security updates. And unfortunately the past has shown that after the version freeze because of a nearby openSUSE release most of the annoying bugs in KDE are not fixed in KDF or via an official update but only by updating to a more recent minor version, i.e. using KRx. I guess this is simply due to lack of time. I think one has to distinguish between the different users groups. There are users who want to test the packages for the next openSUSE release – those are using KDF. And then there are users who want to use the latest KDE upstream release – those use KRx. Those two are not the same users. It took some time to get the KRx repos known and "educate" users to use them instead of some repo which is updated more frequently and meant for testers only. So if KDF will again be known for "if you want the latest stable upstream KDE version" problems and complaining will start all over again as soon as KDF does not update to the latest minor upstream version anymore or becomes unstable, i.e. changes from KDE 4.7 to 4.8. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, den 13.09.2011, 12:01 +0200 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
Hi Sven;
On 09/13/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now.
AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date.
I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software.
Regards.
Hi, maybe that's a chance to discuss this off properly. Because, to my understanding was and is a factory for testing of future spending. Only when these packages are stable enough, they should release the flow repos. Often it is the other way around. Were sometimes in release: 47 editions of KDE 4.7 already in it that still does not contain or delay in KDF, the users were totally confused here. Also, people should use the whole for some time (like me) do not know what more we ask the questioner to users recommend this. All this does not necessarily help to ignorant to take the uncertainty. Also a very important role spilet in this context, the OBS can be found in any relevant information about these repos. The publication in the media (mailing list, news, forums, wiki) according to the event, here is a point of contributing to uncertainty and may cause confusion. How should people like us (authors in a wiki) to bring it closer to the user correctly when the project team is not even a common understanding on the subject? -- Grüße aus' m Schwabenland ↓ → Lisufa, der Linuxsusefan ↓ ################################## ********************************** ....::: openSUSE Member :::..... ************************************************************* Die 'SuS(i)E & KDE' sei mit euch, wo immer ihr auch seid .... *************************************************************
Ismail Donmez wrote:
Hi Sven;
On 09/13/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now.
AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date.
I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software.
Regards.
Hi, on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories I can read under "KDF": "These repositories feature the KDE packages under development for the upcoming openSUSE release..." So, as a normal user, I would suppose that it is NOT stable since it is under development. For KR46/KR47 the same page states that these repositories are supposed for users who want to "... Get KDE SC 4.6.x from a relatively safe repository". Right now, this seems to be absolutly not the case! Personally, I do not understand that the repository was published with half being 4.7.0 and half being 4.7.1. Would it be possible to switch back to 4.7.0 until the issues are sorted out? Anyway, thanks for your work! Regards, Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 13/09/11 11:58, Stefan Vater wrote:
Ismail Donmez wrote:
Hi Sven;
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working). Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now. AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez: their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date. I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your
On 09/13/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote: point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software.
Regards.
Hi,
on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories I can read under "KDF":
"These repositories feature the KDE packages under development for the upcoming openSUSE release..."
So, as a normal user, I would suppose that it is NOT stable since it is under development.
For KR46/KR47 the same page states that these repositories are supposed for users who want to "... Get KDE SC 4.6.x from a relatively safe repository". Right now, this seems to be absolutly not the case!
Personally, I do not understand that the repository was published with half being 4.7.0 and half being 4.7.1. Would it be possible to switch back to 4.7.0 until the issues are sorted out?
Anyway, thanks for your work!
Regards, Stefan
Sven seems to be spot on. The main problem is users are in too much of a hurry. R47 was and still is not ready to allow an update to 4.7.1 I'm still waiting and advising such in the forum too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Carl Fletcher wrote:
On 13/09/11 11:58, Stefan Vater wrote:
Ismail Donmez wrote:
Hi Sven;
> this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From > then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was > working). Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now. AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez: their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
So advertising KDF instead of KRx will not result in more testers but just more frustration and those that explicitly want to test do so and are more willing to stay up-to-date. I can't agree here because KDE:Distro:Factory is always supposed to be stable and consistent. If its not, its a bug. But I agree with your
On 09/13/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote: point about KR47 and javier is working on partially linking it to KDE:Distro:Factory so people can test latest stable software.
Regards.
Hi,
on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories I can read under "KDF":
"These repositories feature the KDE packages under development for the upcoming openSUSE release..."
So, as a normal user, I would suppose that it is NOT stable since it is under development.
For KR46/KR47 the same page states that these repositories are supposed for users who want to "... Get KDE SC 4.6.x from a relatively safe repository". Right now, this seems to be absolutly not the case!
Personally, I do not understand that the repository was published with half being 4.7.0 and half being 4.7.1. Would it be possible to switch back to 4.7.0 until the issues are sorted out?
Anyway, thanks for your work!
Regards, Stefan
Sven seems to be spot on.
The main problem is users are in too much of a hurry. No, I do not think in this case the problem is that users are "too much of a hurry". Consider a user who thought to be on the save side by switching from KR46 to KR47 after the anouncement of 4.7.1. Now, over a week after the announcement he would be in much trouble... Also, I would always thing that a minor version number update does not make much trouble.
R47 was and still is not ready to allow an update to 4.7.1 So why was it switched/published? 4.7.0 in it was in pretty good shape and working well!
I'm still waiting and advising such in the forum too.
I am also waiting, but only because I looked at the version numbers and did not like it that certain base packages were still at 4.7.0 level. But that should not be the rule, normally. But maybe we are on the same side :-) Hopefully, things will sort out in the coming days. It would be nice if there would be an "official" announcement on this list when KR47 is ready! Regards, Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stefan Vater [13.09.2011 15:26]:
Carl Fletcher wrote:
R47 was and still is not ready to allow an update to 4.7.1 So why was it switched/published? 4.7.0 in it was in pretty good shape and working well!
It was switched because it was expected to do so. It should contain the latest stable release of the 4.7 branch.
I'm still waiting and advising such in the forum too. I am also waiting, but only because I looked at the version numbers and did not like it that certain base packages were still at 4.7.0 level. But that should not be the rule, normally.
It is expected that there is a mixture of old and new packages, but a) not for such a long time (one week is a long time here) b) packages of 4.7.1 that need other packages of 4.7.1 should bear this dependency. They should not install when the packages they depend on are not available in the version they are needed. Packages that work "standalone" or are content with 4.7.0 partners should install. This way it worked with K:F:46, and I consider this as desired behaviour ;-).
But maybe we are on the same side :-) Hopefully, things will sort out in the coming days. It would be nice if there would be an "official" announcement on this list when KR47 is ready!
+1 Maybe someone who's watching the build process more closely can even tell why 4.7.1 takes so long to build, much longer than 4.7.0 did. Is it the build system itself? Or the content of the spec files? Or did KDE 4.7.1 grow too big for OBS to handle? I can't imagine this... Will it be okay to empty the whole K:D:47 repo from the 4.7.0 packages and refill it with the 4.7.1 packages only? Regards, Werner -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5vYTsACgkQk33Krq8b42PGWgCeNF1dZLblR+F4q97Brf1L4GSm MxgAn2HL3D2bhtvvXShiPkZ2MxE4v8UN =MrDb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Dienstag, 13. September 2011, 10:28:16 schrieb Ismail Donmez:
this morning (about 6:00 GMT) I updated from KDE:Release:47. From then on, I could not invoke kate (from KDE4; KDE3's kate was working).
Please use KDE:Distro:Factory, its stable and serving KDE 4.7.1 now.
AFAIR the purpose of KRx was serve users who do not want to act as testing users. There are several reasons for this. Among them that KDF will become unstable at some point and users will be forced to change their repos again which they do not have to do when using KRx.
Actually I have had better luck with K:D:F overall, than the few times I did change to KR:x. Mostly my interest in KR:x arises at time(s) when K:D:F is about to undergo a major version upheaval and I want to keep my system stable until it shakes out.
Users of KDF have to follow the news/wiki in order to know what's in KDF and when it changes which most of them do not want to do and do not have to do when using KRx because the name states the content – unlike KDF.
[snip] Absolutely, it must be noted that K:D:F is a shifting work in progress and _will_ change. It is incumbent upon the user to both recognize it is not officially supported as necessarily stable for day-to-day use. If you want to use K:D:F you will want to keep up with what's going on in the active development. This can also include eavesdropping [lurking] on IRC. Case in point was the recent 'black screen' problem. I saw the devs knew about it and were on it. So instead of just blindly updating I chose to wait a bit. A few days later it was ready, I updated, and all was well. Well, except the default changed to systemd startup. I could get sound from the sound test in Yast, but no sound in KDE (all 3 backends). Rebooted, used the F5 option to choose System V startup and everything was back to normal. Bottom line it is a good idea for users to keep themselves informed. -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carl Fletcher -
Ismail Donmez -
LisufasGnome3 -
Michael Powell -
Stefan Vater -
Sven Burmeister -
Werner Flamme