I for one am still optimistic for 12.1.

I would love to be so optimistic, but unfortunately I have seen too many important bugs ignored.  I recall back at 10.1 when package management was broken on install that I suggested a re-spin of final once the issue was fixed.  This was not met with very much enthusiasm despite my insistence that the 10.1 release was useless without the ability to either install software or perform updates.  However, it eventually proved necessary to re-issue 10.1 even though the final release should never have been made with the bug.  As far as I can see, this approach to serious issues has not changed.  I view the update manage bug mentioned in my previous message to the list the same way.  How can 12.1 reach "final" with broken package management?!

Some of the issues you mention are already fixed in KDF/4.7.2, others are fairly trivial fixes. Of course some issues will remain and 12.1 won't be perfect, but it can quite realistically become better than 11.4, and we can't hope for much more than that.

I assume by mentioning KDE 4.7.2 that you mean it will be included in 12.1 final?  I understand that issues will remain after release, but if broken package management is one of these issues, there will be no way to address problems after release for non-technical users as they will be unable to apply updates.  Also, like I said, no Operating System in 2011 should be released with such problems as incorrectly-functioning optical drives...

With Will back (part-time), a full month of polishing and bugfixes before 12.1 could do wonders still.

I truly hope you are right, but like I said, I am desperate.  Another bad release will necessitate a move to another distro for me and my users, and that is something I will be truly sad to do, as I have always enjoyed SuSE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/10/11 14:28, Roger Luedecke wrote:

On Sunday, October 09, 2011 07:49:50 AM Malvern Star wrote:

...

...

I for one am still optimistic for 12.1. I would love to be so optimistic, but unfortunately I have seen too many important bugs ignored. I recall back at 10.1 when package management was broken on install that I suggested a re-spin of final once the issue was fixed. This was not met with very much enthusiasm despite my insistence that the 10.1 release was useless without the ability to either install software or perform updates. However, it eventually proved necessary to re-issue 10.1 even though the final release should never have been made with the bug. As far as I can see, this approach to serious issues has not changed. I view the update manage bug mentioned in my previous message to the list the same way. How can 12.1 reach "final" with broken package management?!

...

Some of the issues you mention are already fixed in KDF/4.7.2, others are fairly trivial fixes. Of course some issues will remain and 12.1 won't be perfect, but it can quite realistically become better than 11.4, and we can't hope for much more than that. I assume by mentioning KDE 4.7.2 that you mean it will be included in 12.1 final? I understand that issues will remain after release, but if broken package management is one of these issues, there will be no way to address problems after release for non-technical users as they will be unable to apply updates. Also, like I said, no Operating System in 2011 should be released with such problems as incorrectly-functioning optical drives...

...

With Will back (part-time), a full month of polishing and bugfixes before 12.1 could do wonders still. I truly hope you are right, but like I said, I am desperate. Another bad release will necessitate a move to another distro for me and my users, and that is something I will be truly sad to do, as I have always enjoyed SuSE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org The answer is simple... we are trying to be Mandriva. Hyperbole if you ask me I'm using 12.1 beta1 kde and it's really good. Very stable. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

...

Hyperbole if you ask me I'm using 12.1 beta1 kde and it's really good. Very stable.

In general, I agree. 4.6.x has been very good, and 4.7.x has been (in general) a nice refinement. However, I've encountered some issues (for which I've filed bugs) that I personally would consider showstoppers. For me, the most annoying bugs are these (not necessarily show stoppers):

- konsole *always* starts with the wrong terminal size. 'stty size' reports 0 0. After typing 'reset' it reports 24 80. "Clear Scrollback and Reset" changes it back to 0 0. None of these is correct. Not even close! This one is a show stopper for me.

- return-from-suspend crashes (synaptiks, sometimes the panel - which changes position upon restart!) Also a show stopper.

- inability to really disable screensaver without large quantities of hoop-jumping. screensaver config in several places.

- the inability to disable nepomuk indexing without getting grumped at *every single time* I log in. I don't need to be notified (three times) that it's disabled - I know it's disabled, I disabled it. Very annoying.

Some of these (the screensaver bug) has been around since the earliest KDE 4.x. The konsole bug was new with 4.7.x, and then return-from-suspend crashes were new with 4.7.2.

I consider the fact that users can neither perform updates nor eject optical drives correctly to be far more serious bugs.  Plus there's that whole mess with KDE applications being unable to run with superuser privileges.  I was told to file the bug against KDE, but they handed it back, saying it was due to something openSuSE had done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Carl Fletcher wrote:

On 11/10/11 17:12, Malvern Star wrote:

...

...

...

Hyperbole if you ask me I'm using 12.1 beta1 kde and it's really good. Very stable.

In general, I agree. 4.6.x has been very good, and 4.7.x has been (in general) a nice refinement. However, I've encountered some issues (for which I've filed bugs) that I personally would consider showstoppers. For me, the most annoying bugs are these (not necessarily show stoppers):

- konsole *always* starts with the wrong terminal size. 'stty size' reports 0 0.  After typing 'reset' it reports 24 80. "Clear Scrollback and Reset" changes it back to 0 0.  None of these is correct. Not even close! This one is a show stopper for me.

- return-from-suspend crashes (synaptiks, sometimes the panel - which changes position upon restart!) Also a show stopper.

- inability to really disable screensaver without large quantities of hoop-jumping. screensaver config in several places.

- the inability to disable nepomuk indexing without getting grumped at *every single time* I log in. I don't need to be notified (three times) that it's disabled - I know it's disabled, I disabled it. Very annoying.

Some of these (the screensaver bug) has been around since the earliest KDE 4.x. The konsole bug was new with 4.7.x, and then return-from-suspend crashes were new with 4.7.2.

I consider the fact that users can neither perform updates nor eject optical drives correctly to be far more serious bugs.  Plus there's that whole mess with KDE applications being unable to run with superuser privileges.  I was told to file the bug against KDE, but they handed it back, saying it was due to something openSuSE had done.                                          -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

I must be in a minority then, having no real issues here Just this so far in kde beta1

kdesu kwrite <filename> Is not working

I've always had to use: kdesu -- <program> [arguments] like this: kdesu -- kwrite <filename> -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/10/2011 19:18, Richard wrote:

At dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 18:21:41 wrote Carl Fletcher:

...

kdesu kwrite <filename> Is not working

What about: # ssh -X kwrite <filename> Is that working for you?

it is but after placing this in .bashrc #kde stupid dbus things eval `dbus-launch --auto-syntax` and that help me to get a konsole open with su -l to become root and be able to run yast2 from there or any graphics tools. Annoying : from 4.6.5+ I loose all search capabilities I'm now rebuilding the nepomuk database ~205197 files and 2GB store size (did I hit a limit) 2.0GB sound always suspicious to my ears.. Having a search engine which can be annoying a number of time, which is not able to return any result when it was able to do that previously is call a regression at best, a total failure by me. (Sorry to be rude, I'm angry on that subject, because I was so convinced by the semantic desktop promise 2 years and a half ago, and has I don't have any tablet to get distracted by plasma-active actually I focus on that) I know that upstream a severe bug in virtuoso 6x with utf-8 is able to pollute some records and then not able to return any results. Which can be catastrophic if you have inserted thousands of metatags ! kaddressbook is actually broken all contacts are scramble and trying to modify one crash the stack. They are readable if you launch krunner and hopefully the .vcf are intact kmail2 has a stupid bug of wrong ordering imap folders where everything is ordered alphabetically (Local folder put important folder in first place like inbox, send, trash, draft, junk) Moving messages between imap account, or just even folder finish by a crash and a total desynchronized viewer (subject list and preview) Konversation crash will be fixed soon if upstream can create a patch that work for 1.3.1 (thx Will) PNM/NM with polkit asking root password all the time should find a fix before release. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/10/2011 22:47, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Tuesday 11 Oct 2011 22:39:40 Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

PNM/NM with polkit asking root password all the time should find a fix before release.

Not KDE's fault: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=713639

Absolutely sorry, was just on the top list of annoying (ship blocker) bugs. and most of people on kde will be hit by this one until we get the fix. Otherwise, I didn't mention the good aspect : I'm working on a Dell Precision M4600 i7 2820QM with a Quadro 2000M 2Gb video ram and with the Nvidia proprio blob. (which I re-install after each kernel or xorg/mesa update) actually at 285.05.09 and I didn't have plasma crashes :D Once the pim stack will be a bit more stable, I will start to use the activities. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11 October 2011 12:12, Malvern Star wrote:

...

...

Hyperbole if you ask me I'm using 12.1 beta1 kde and it's really good. Very stable.

In general, I agree. 4.6.x has been very good, and 4.7.x has been (in general) a nice refinement. However, I've encountered some issues (for which I've filed bugs) that I personally would consider showstoppers. For me, the most annoying bugs are these (not necessarily show stoppers):

- konsole *always* starts with the wrong terminal size. 'stty size' reports 0 0.  After typing 'reset' it reports 24 80. "Clear Scrollback and Reset" changes it back to 0 0.  None of these is correct. Not even close! This one is a show stopper for me.

- return-from-suspend crashes (synaptiks, sometimes the panel - which changes position upon restart!) Also a show stopper.

- inability to really disable screensaver without large quantities of hoop-jumping. screensaver config in several places.

- the inability to disable nepomuk indexing without getting grumped at *every single time* I log in. I don't need to be notified (three times) that it's disabled - I know it's disabled, I disabled it. Very annoying.

Some of these (the screensaver bug) has been around since the earliest KDE 4.x. The konsole bug was new with 4.7.x, and then return-from-suspend crashes were new with 4.7.2.

I consider the fact that users can neither perform updates nor eject optical drives correctly to be far more serious bugs.  Plus there's that whole mess with KDE applications being unable to run with superuser privileges.  I was told to file the bug against KDE, but they handed it back, saying it was due to something openSuSE had done.

I think coolo fixed it. See http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2011-10/msg00079.html

                                         -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 09:25:15 AM Markus Slopianka wrote:

On Samstag 08 Oktober 2011 12:26:51 Malvern Star wrote:

...

3) Konqueror is unable to use Adobe Flash by default: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=661901

Konqueror isn't the default browser. Firefox is. Still a legit problem. I like to use Konqueror sometimes, so flash should work... as it has in 11.4 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 13/10/11 18:22, Roger Luedecke wrote:

On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 09:25:15 AM Markus Slopianka wrote:

...

On Samstag 08 Oktober 2011 12:26:51 Malvern Star wrote:

...

3) Konqueror is unable to use Adobe Flash by default: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=661901 Konqueror isn't the default browser. Firefox is. Still a legit problem. I like to use Konqueror sometimes, so flash should work... as it has in 11.4 konqueror and flash do work fine in 12.1 Though as in 11.4 I have to go to the Konq settings and scan for plugins -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org