[opensuse-kde] Difference between kde repo's
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ? http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/openSUS... vs http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/ Thanks, Tony -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Which reminds me -- when will KDE 4.3.newer be released as an update for openSUSE 11.2? I'm anxious. -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/openSU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE. So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/open SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections? -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Maybe an openSUSE news entries first to make a last minute warning for people not reading -kde? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 01/06/2010 11:56 AM, Karsten König wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Maybe an openSUSE news entries first to make a last minute warning for people not reading -kde?
I agree. Let's add a notification to the Weekly News for all users. -- Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 01/06/2010 10:56 AM, Karsten König wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Maybe an openSUSE news entries first to make a last minute warning for people not reading -kde?
Before kde:/43/ removed will the KDE4:/STABLE be updated with same stuff as in kde:/43/. Right now kde:/43/ has some stuff/features working that is not in the kde4:/stable. Thanks, Tony -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 19:03:52 schrieb Tony:
Before kde:/43/ removed will the KDE4:/STABLE be updated with same stuff as in kde:/43/.
Right now kde:/43/ has some stuff/features working that is not in the kde4:/stable.
You can get those from Backports or Community. IMHO they should not have been in 43 in the first place. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/10 06:15, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 19:03:52 schrieb Tony:
Before kde:/43/ removed will the KDE4:/STABLE be updated with same stuff as in kde:/43/.
Right now kde:/43/ has some stuff/features working that is not in the kde4:/stable.
You can get those from Backports or Community. IMHO they should not have been in 43 in the first place.
Sven
Oh, for chrissake!
Cannot someone who knows, *REALLY* knows and who actually has the
*AUTHORITY* to give a clear answer on this matter, state what the heck
this is all about?!
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and
there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and
another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5
feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case
you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........
Oh my god!
PLEASE! someone.... *pretty*, *PRETTY*, *PRETTY*, please :'( . Get this
repos crap FIXED!
STABLE.
WORK-IN-PROGRESS.
EXPERIMENTAL.
FANTASIA.
Anything!
But *please* get it sorted out so that anyone can understand what is
going on.
This is the beginning of the year *2010* (depending on your religious
background).
We are past the dark ages. We are past the uninlightened years. We are
well past the era of Woodstock and the Beatles and whatever. We are
about to enter the Year of the Tiger next month.
We have just entered the age of Windows 7 for chrissake!
And all we get is goobly-dook about what repos we are supposed to use to
get openSUSE running with the workable version of KDE!
I mean....!
On Thursday 07 January 2010 23:34:10 Basil Chupin wrote: ...
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5 feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........ ...
Exactly my feeling :) Using numbers for repos will save us explanation, as upstream project already has explanation. If adding and removing is as easy as Lubos mentioned, numbers will remove need to use the Force to decipher what to expect in some repo. Now I go to repository listing looking the version numbers and scratch my head. What is the difference? README that will explain what is in there is missing. Last time I enabled STABLE it wanted to downgrade some packages to released version. Would be that good? I don't have idea, so I said no thanks and enabled 43 again (as long as it lasts). -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 8. januar 2010 07:04:01 skrev Rajko M.:
On Thursday 07 January 2010 23:34:10 Basil Chupin wrote:
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5 feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........ ...
Exactly my feeling :)
Using numbers for repos will save us explanation, as upstream project already has explanation.
If adding and removing is as easy as Lubos mentioned, numbers will remove need to use the Force to decipher what to expect in some repo.
Using numbers would be highly confusing. Upstream only tells the story about the source code - it says nothing about the state or purpose of _packages_ from openSUSE point of view. Factory, STABLE and UNSTABLE contains a lot more useful information than 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 ever would. Every god damn body would think that 4.5 had to be the best for them. And besides using numbers would mean people have to change their repos every time there's a new upstream release.
Now I go to repository listing looking the version numbers and scratch my head. What is the difference? README that will explain what is in there is missing.
How many people do you think browse the OBS directly? .. certainly only geeks and enthusiasts. It's all right here: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories And the structure has been the same for some time, it should be getting through to some people by now. STABLE == Latest released version by openSUSE + patches unreleased/released Factory == Development for next openSUSE UNSTABLE == KDE trunk snapshots Is that really so hard to understand and remember? If it is - just stick with the official KDE packages + Backports and Community. All other repos, such as KDE:/43/ can be categorized as temporary solutions. To solve some problem for some people.
Last time I enabled STABLE it wanted to downgrade some packages to released version. Would be that good? I don't have idea, so I said no thanks and enabled 43 again (as long as it lasts).
So add backports or playground or wherever the packages you want are built for STABLE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 08/01/10 18:13, Martin Schlander wrote: [pruned]
STABLE == Latest released version by openSUSE + patches unreleased/released Factory == Development for next openSUSE
Now, just for starters, why not simply call this repo *DEVELOPMENT*, which term everybody understands, rather than 'FACTORY'?!
UNSTABLE == KDE trunk snapshots
And again, why not call this repo "KDE trunk snapshots"?
Is that really so hard to understand and remember? If it is - just stick with the official KDE packages + Backports and Community.
Ah, now here are other pieces of confusion.... "Backports" and "Community" :-) . "Backports": what the heck is the real difference - except in the minds of developers - between "backports" and "upgrades" to an application? "Community": what does this really mean to someone who wants to keep openSUSE running with the latest "backported" or "upgraded" or "whatever-you-wanna-call-'em" bits of software? Ah, read the wiki, right? :-) Just have a look at the entry in the YaST's Software Management for the info re KERNEL. It states that the kernel (of whatever flavour) has as its Vendor, "openSUSE <version>". But we all know that the kernel is being produced by the Linux/Unix "community".
All other repos, such as KDE:/43/ can be categorized as temporary solutions. To solve some problem for some people.
Last time I enabled STABLE it wanted to downgrade some packages to released version. Would be that good? I don't have idea, so I said no thanks and enabled 43 again (as long as it lasts).
So add backports or playground or wherever the packages you want are built for STABLE.
Oh my gosh...I had forgotten about the "Playground" bullshit :'( . Who thought up this term? Was it some American advertising agency? (We have a TV commercial for one of leading banks where there is a meeting to discuss how the bank can get customers to tell the bank what they need to be improved and how the bank can respond. One of the participants at the meeting is a 5 year old kid, who is colouring in a drawing, of one of the executives at the meeting. In the background is a pair of American advertising experts with a gadget: a basketball hoop which when a ball goes thru the hoop sounds a siren and the ball drops into a pool of water; the American ad. person then calls out, "Ba-Ba-Ba-Basketball!" to suggest that instead of the usual Suggestion Box, customers write their suggestions/complaints on a BASKETBALl and then try and throw the ball thru the hoop - and if successful, a siren and flashing lights go off! The 5 year old turns to his dad and asks, "Dad, why can't we simply just ask, and do, what our customers want?" This simple idea is adopted, and the meeting ends.) BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Fredag 8. januar 2010 07.04.01 skrev Rajko M. :
On Thursday 07 January 2010 23:34:10 Basil Chupin wrote: ...
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5 feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........
...
Exactly my feeling :)
Using numbers for repos will save us explanation, as upstream project already has explanation.
If adding and removing is as easy as Lubos mentioned, numbers will remove need to use the Force to decipher what to expect in some repo.
Now I go to repository listing looking the version numbers and scratch my head. What is the difference? README that will explain what is in there is missing.
Last time I enabled STABLE it wanted to downgrade some packages to released version. Would be that good? I don't have idea, so I said no thanks and enabled 43 again (as long as it lasts).
I must agree to these sentiments. The current KDE repo structure for openSUSE is utterly confusing to me. Although I have used SuSE and openSUSE for years I still feel very uneasy every time I stumble into http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories. I remember a time when there was KDE stable and KDE unstable. Sigh! :-) Olav -- openSUSE VERSION = 11.2 Powered by Kernel: 2.6.31.8-0.1-desktop Linux x86_64 08:03 up 8:12, 2 users, load average: 0,00, 0,06, 0,14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 08/01/10 17:04, Rajko M. wrote:
On Thursday 07 January 2010 23:34:10 Basil Chupin wrote: ...
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5 feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........
...
Exactly my feeling :)
Using numbers for repos will save us explanation, as upstream project already has explanation.
If adding and removing is as easy as Lubos mentioned, numbers will remove need to use the Force to decipher what to expect in some repo.
Now I go to repository listing looking the version numbers and scratch my head. What is the difference? README that will explain what is in there is missing.
Last time I enabled STABLE it wanted to downgrade some packages to released version. Would be that good? I don't have idea, so I said no thanks and enabled 43 again (as long as it lasts).
If you would like i can send you a screenshot of the repos I have activated (with the appropriate priority levels) which keep my system (and my wife's) up-to-date with regards to kde4.3.4 (or at least I think that this is what is happening :-) ). What is just a tadd disconcerting is that in oS11.1 one had the "Update Applet" which you could configure so that it checked for updates to both the apps as well as the security patches. And one could configure the applet to use the (???) frontend and not the current PackageKit Plugin which is a *total* useless piece of crap. Or one could use, as I did for a long time, SMART because Stephen Binner used to configure it with the correct repos to use to keep the system up-to-date. Now, the only thing which is of any sensible use is zypper - but even here it requires a rocket science degree to use. For example, late last night (after coming back from interstate) I used zypper to upgrade the system. The first thing which happened was that I got the error message that the videolan repo was unavailable: retry, abort, ignore? OK, I 'ignored' and used 'zypper dup' to upgrade the system. "dup" came back that all sorts of apps are going to "Change Vendor" from videolan to packman. After thinking about what to do I decided to allow "dup" to change the vendor from videolan to packman. (Afterall, there has been a change in the EU (France) re the policy about using certain protection-busting apps....) This morning, as normal, I did another "zypper refresh" - and again got the error message that videolan was away with the birds somewhere..... Fine, ignore this and let's carry on. Some bits got upgraded using "zypper dup" - and as I also always use "zypper up" to double check what may be upgraded - I allowed the upgrades to occur. This afternoon I went to upgrade my wife's computer. Running "zypper refresh" showed that videolan repo *WAS* available! OK, I upgraded her system. Then I went back to mine...... Rerunning "zypper dup" on my system now gave me a long list of apps which will now have the vendor changed from packman *back* to VIDEOLAN! WTF! :-( Rajko, I am not really sure that using numerals is the answer. I honestly think that the whole system/policy/concept of how openSUSE is upgraded has to be seriously examined and reviewed. And it should *NOT* be done by people who are heavily or otherwise involved in the current system, for obvious reasons. BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 09 January 2010 00:01:53 Basil Chupin wrote:
And it should NOT be done by people who are heavily or otherwise involved in the current system, for obvious reasons.
Some time ago I proposed to create team that will be communication medium between developers and users with objective to translate user-developer communication. Profile of candidates for the team would be technical background, or ability to understand developers talk, and patience with users, or ability to interview people that need help. That sounds so close to - not heavily involved with <some> project. The Videolan repo problems can be connection problems. Once fails, next time works. Sometimes right after it failed. I wrote my version of http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories and I would need comments. It is on discussion page: http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:KDE/Repositories -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 8. Januar 2010 06:34:10 schrieb Basil Chupin:
On 07/01/10 06:15, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 19:03:52 schrieb Tony:
Before kde:/43/ removed will the KDE4:/STABLE be updated with same stuff as in kde:/43/.
Right now kde:/43/ has some stuff/features working that is not in the kde4:/stable.
You can get those from Backports or Community. IMHO they should not have been in 43 in the first place.
Sven
Oh, for chrissake!
Cannot someone who knows, *REALLY* knows and who actually has the *AUTHORITY* to give a clear answer on this matter, state what the heck this is all about?!
There is a directory/repo for "this" and there is a repo for "that" and there is a repo for "the other - but only if you have 2 left feet" and another repo for "all others who have more than 2 feet or less than 5 feet unless you have 10 feet and are non-Spanish speaking in which case you need to use this <FUBAR> repo"........
http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories has a description for each repo and since it's a wiki the description and structure of that site, if not useful, is open for improvement. Most KDE sites on opensuse.org have a link that lists useful sites, including that repo site. The YaST community repos module only contains two, easy to select repos. I would not know how a repo name can tell the user whether digikam/amarok etc. are included or not. Thus my thought is that none of those should be part of a KDE repo such as stable but rather only be in backports/community etc. as decribed on the repo-site. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Am Wednesday 06 January 2010 17:56:10 schrieb Karsten König:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/ op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
Just to understand: Isn't it so, that the stable repo will be fix? and the kde4.3 branch will get furthermore fixes from upstream which could go into kde43 like it was the last time? So if you want a "up to date" 4.3.4 the 43 repo should stay alive? Daniel
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 21:58:38 schrieb Daniel Fuhrmann:
Just to understand: Isn't it so, that the stable repo will be fix? and the kde4.3 branch will get furthermore fixes from upstream which could go into kde43 like it was the last time? So if you want a "up to date" 4.3.4 the 43 repo should stay alive?
No, there will be no more KDE 4.3 releases and fixes it is all about 4.4 now. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/10 07:58, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:
Am Wednesday 06 January 2010 17:56:10 schrieb Karsten König:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/ op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
Just to understand: Isn't it so, that the stable repo will be fix? and the kde4.3 branch will get furthermore fixes from upstream which could go into kde43 like it was the last time? So if you want a "up to date" 4.3.4 the 43 repo should stay alive?
Daniel
:-D I gather from this that after reading that lengthy and detailed explanation by Tejas you have been left totally confused or possibly even more confused than before? :-) You are not alone. On 5 Dec 2009, Will Stephenson wrote this: QUOTE The KDE and maintenance teams are taking the unprecedented step of a point release update to KDE SC 4.3.4 in our 'STABLE' repository and from then as an online update to 11.2. Normally we don't do version updates in online updates, preferring to backport patches to the released version. I'll be straight with you; the impetus for doing this comes from putting 4.3.4 on an enterprise product and we don't want to maintain two 4.3 codebases, but we're confident that this is a good thing for openSUSE users, because: - 4.3.4 has 2 months' more upstream bugfixing in it, compared to 4.3.1. This includes a major Plasma performance bug fix. - 4.3.4 is the final planned release in the KDE 4.3 series and will therefore have the longest shelf life. It will be easier to apply future fixes from the KDE 4.3 branch to 4.3.4 packages than to 4.3.1 packages. - having 4.3.4 on an enterprise product gives us additional reasons (customers' money!) to fix bugs in it, benefitting openSUSE users too. - We are aware that any version update has the potential to include regressions, but: - 4.3.4 is a point release with only bugfixes and translation updates - we've seen a lot of use of the KDE:43 repo from 11.2 users without a lot more bugs - other distributions have already shipped 4.3.2 and are going to push point releases as online updates as well We have consulted the openSUSE maintenance team, who were in favour of this move. The online update will take place after a period of testing 4.3.4 on 11.2 in KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop. The sole drawback to this that we're aware of is that this will be a large online update download; we hope you will agree the benefits will be worth it. Season's greetings! Will UNQUOTE On the 17 Dec I asked what the status of this situation was. On 3 Jan 2010, Dirk Mueller answered with: QUOTE There are a few regressions to fix before teh 11.2 update will be started. so work in progress. Greetings, Dirk UNQUOTE Does this provide you with the answer? BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 09/01/10 04:35, Basil Chupin wrote:
I gather from this that after reading that lengthy and detailed explanation by Tejas you have been left totally confused or possibly even more confused than before? :-) You are not alone.
I thought it was pretty clear. If you are still confused i'll say it again: Stick with KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop all the time, you will be slightly out of date for a few months a year but will be OK the rest of the time - or if even that is too hard - Stick with the version of KDE that came on your openSUSE disk and stop complaining What is the repository that will always have the most recent stable KDE? is not a reasonable question to ask because it is always changing. That is a side-effect of the way the KDE team works, and as far as I can see there is no easy alternatives that wouldn't make their life more difficult. To try and answer the specific questions (confusion about the future of KDE:43), which I am always happy to do: You are correct that the *openSUSE* KDE packaging team _had_ decided that, in order of happening 0) Since the upstream KDE release team had decided there would be no more 4.3.x releases 1) 4.3.4 would be put into KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop (this is happening as we speak hopefully) 2) 4.3.4 would then be released as an online update for openSUSE 11.2 (still happening) 3) KDE:43 (which currently contains 4.3.4) would then have no reason to exist and disappear. (the step under discussion) 4) Life would move on and we would all be happy The spanner in the works is that there is now a rumour that the upstream KDE release team (not the SUSE packaging KDE team) has changed their mind and may release a KDE 4.3.5. This of course borks up the plans to get rid of KDE:43, because now it does have a reason to exist - it can hold 4.3.5. 4.3.5 cannot go into KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop because that has already moved on to 4.4betas/rc. This is all that is going on. It is undecided as to whether we a) Skip packaging 4.3.5 (if there is one) and get rid of KDE:43 as originally planned -or- b) Keep KDE:43 and put 4.3.5 in it. That is all that needs to be decided. Hardly worth getting worked up over. After all this is sorted out, KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Desktop will not be updated till the next openSUSE release (11.3) when it will contain some version of 4.4.x. KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop will continue to be updated until 11.3's version freeze and so is the repository to use if you want 4.4 ASAP. If you've got more specific questions, ask them with a minimum of extra complaints please. --- The remainder of this email is feeding the troll --- On 09/01/10 06:59, Basil Chupin wrote:
Now, just for starters, why not simply call this repo *DEVELOPMENT*, which term everybody understands, rather than 'FACTORY'?!
Ah, now here are other pieces of confusion.... "Backports" and "Community" :-) .
"Backports": what the heck is the real difference - except in the minds of developers - between "backports" and "upgrades" to an application?
Oh my gosh...I had forgotten about the "Playground" bullshit :'( . Who thought up this term? Was it some American advertising agency?
Arguing semantics (FACTORY is too confusing? seriously? FWIW Factory has ALWAYS meant openSUSE Development version, in ALL openSUSE projects. Gnome:Factory, X11:common:Factory, mozilla:factory) is just getting silly at this point. The repositories are named what they are. If you don't understand the names don't use them. Backport is a standard term across all Linux distributions. It means taking a single newer application or fix and using it in an older system. There is no ambiguity there. And Playground is untested unreleased applications. If you are advanced enough to choose openSUSE as your distro and sign up to the mailing list and still want the latest KDE version at all times the LEAST you could do is learn them before complaining. openSUSE is a release based distro and the OBS is a development tool for the releases. openSUSE is not a rolling-release based distro where always the latest packages are available in the main repository. If you want that, sorry to lose users but you'll have to go elsewhere (gentoo? arch?). Other release-based distributions work the same way, in Ubuntu the only way to upgrade packages is to install a mess of PPAs. In fact to upgrade major packages like KDE in a release-based distro never used to be even possible in the days before OBS (and launchpad ppas for *buntu). But nevertheless, the development OBS repositories are *not* for the average joe users! How many times can people say this! The average joe users are meant to use the released version that came on their DVD! Only advanced users even have the desire to "always keep up to date". As a HANDY SIDE-EFFECT of the way openSUSE development is now done, thanks to the magic of the openSUSE Build System, users can actually also install the latest packages the developers are working on. (* There is no requirement to do this! If it's too complicated, don't do it! *) But the developers still have control - the goal is to get the next release out the door with everything working, and the repositories are organized in the best way to achieve that goal. This isn't going to change. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Lørdag den 9. januar 2010 14:39:33 skrev Tejas Guruswamy:
On 09/01/10 04:35, Basil Chupin wrote:
I gather from this that after reading that lengthy and detailed explanation by Tejas you have been left totally confused or possibly even more confused than before? :-) You are not alone.
I thought it was pretty clear. If you are still confused i'll say it again: Stick with KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop all the time
Are you kidding? He'll be here whining several times every day, using packages of beta code under very heavy development and constantly changing and having regressions. He wants something that works, and doesn't require any work or special considerations, the answer is simple, stick to the distro packages + backports and community repo. He'll get stable, non-changing KDE 4.3.x (apart from the upcoming 4.3.4 update) and all the latest apps, and he'll never have to change repos again in 11.2 lifetime. Maybe, MAYBE, you can recommend Factory to casual, hyper-sensitive, demanding users like Basil when 11.3 reaches beta stage, or thereabouts, but *only* if you're 100% sure they understand that Factory will "suddenly" get extremely bumpy again the minute factory moves towards 12.0 - which they prolly won't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 10/01/10 00:39, Tejas Guruswamy wrote:
On 09/01/10 04:35, Basil Chupin wrote:
I gather from this that after reading that lengthy and detailed explanation by Tejas you have been left totally confused or possibly even more confused than before? :-) You are not alone.
I thought it was pretty clear. If you are still confused i'll say it again: Stick with KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop all the time, you will be slightly out of date for a few months a year but will be OK the rest of the time - or if even that is too hard - Stick with the version of KDE that came on your openSUSE disk and stop complaining
See my other response to you. FACTORY is not the answer. In light of what Will posted at the beginning of last December, the STABLE repo was the way to go. And I am not "complaining" but simply pointing out - implicitly or explicitly - the incorrect use of terms which to normal users are not only contradictory but confusing - and it is about time someone took steps to have a rethink about agreeing to a common and understandable terminology used to describe what the repos are supposed to be about. BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 10 January 2010, Basil Chupin wrote:
And I am not "complaining" but simply pointing out - implicitly or explicitly - the incorrect use of terms which to normal users are not only contradictory but confusing - and it is about time someone took steps to have a rethink about agreeing to a common and understandable terminology used to describe what the repos are supposed to be about.
Can you suggest better terms? Thanks, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/10 07:58, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:
Am Wednesday 06 January 2010 17:56:10 schrieb Karsten König:
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2010 17:32:06 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/ op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
Just to understand: Isn't it so, that the stable repo will be fix? and the kde4.3 branch will get furthermore fixes from upstream which could go into kde43 like it was the last time? So if you want a "up to date" 4.3.4 the 43 repo should stay alive?
Daniel
Daniel, I am sending you a screen capture of the repos I am using to have kde4.3.4 being up-to-date. Let me know if you do not receive it. BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 6. januar 2010 17:32:06 skrev Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Hm.. the release team is talking about doing a 4.3.5 release. Maybe we'll need the 43 repo for that, unless 4.3.5 would be put in STABLE. Personally I wouldn't mind killing 43 repo now - even if it means skipping 4.3.5 altogether. Only.. either Lubos or Will should promise to blog about it.. announcing major repo changes on the list only doesn't reach enough people :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/10 11:47, Martin Schlander wrote:
Onsdag den 6. januar 2010 17:32:06 skrev Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Hm.. the release team is talking about doing a 4.3.5 release. Maybe we'll need the 43 repo for that, unless 4.3.5 would be put in STABLE.
Personally I wouldn't mind killing 43 repo now - even if it means skipping 4.3.5 altogether.
Only.. either Lubos or Will should promise to blog about it.. announcing major repo changes on the list only doesn't reach enough people :-)
Oh, no, no, no. Not yet another repo to contend with... :-) See what Will wrote at the start of December. 4.3 is going to be killed. Or at least this is what he said was agreed to. Or has it? Who really knows what is going on? :-) Just don't ask me - I know nuthin'! BC PS Aha! I know what to do: I'll take the bull by the tail.......... -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/10 11:47, Martin Schlander wrote:
Onsdag den 6. januar 2010 17:32:06 skrev Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 05 of January 2010, Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 5. januar 2010 17:07:09 skrev Tony:
just wondering what is the difference between the following kde4 repo's ?
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/STABLE:/Desktop/op en SU SE_11.1/
vs
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.1/
The latter is pretty pointless after it has been decided to ship 4.3.4 as an official update to 11.2 - and therefore putting it in STABLE.
So just use the first one. The KDE:/43/ repo should be killed in the near future.
So, how about ... now? Objections?
Hm.. the release team is talking about doing a 4.3.5 release. Maybe we'll need the 43 repo for that, unless 4.3.5 would be put in STABLE.
Personally I wouldn't mind killing 43 repo now - even if it means skipping 4.3.5 altogether.
Only.. either Lubos or Will should promise to blog about it.. announcing major repo changes on the list only doesn't reach enough people :-)
And so, "motor-mouth", Basil will- "..... be here whining several times every day, using packages of beta code under very heavy development and constantly changing and having regressions. He wants something that works, and doesn't require any work or special considerations, the answer is simple, stick to the distro packages + backports and community repo. He'll get stable, non-changing KDE 4.3.x (apart from the upcoming 4.3.4 update) and all the latest apps, and he'll never have to change repos again in 11.2 lifetime. Maybe, MAYBE, you can recommend Factory to casual, hyper-sensitive, demanding users like Basil when 11.3 reaches beta stage, or thereabouts, but *only* if you're 100% sure they understand that Factory will "suddenly" get extremely bumpy again the minute factory moves towards 12.0 - which they prolly won't." eh? I already quoted in full in an earlier post what Will stated, and what Dirk wrote in response to my question. When Will posted his message I altered my repo from FACTORY to STABLE. But it appears that you yourself have not a damn clue of what is actually going on :-) . And why all this emphasis by Tejas about "Factory" (and your lack of contradiction of his statements)? Everybody knows what Factory is all about but not everyone wants to go fooling around with the bleeding edge of KDE development but do want to have the latest WORKABLE, also known as STABLE for all those who understand English - especially if those who sound like they actually know what they are talking about advise readers of this forum at the start of last December that the usable upgrade to the original 11.2 release, KDE4.1.3, is/will be available in STABLE repo. And just to continue along these lines...... One of the real problems with KDE development - and I guess openSUSE overall (seeing as I do NOT use any other distro) is that the APPLICATIONS which you so happily state as being available in repos like COMMUNITY, for example, don't keep up with the development of KDE itself. As simple examples, K3b and K9Copy are not always in step with KDE development itself. Or *are* they? KDE3 disappeared in 11.2 and so (finally) did KDE3* versions of K3b and K9Copy, and are now replaced with K4x versions. The question - and I ask this in all sincerity - is: who does modify these applications to run with the latest 'version' of KDE? The KDE development team - in which case why does one need to have a separate COMMUNITY repo to keep them up-to-date - or is the "keeping-up" done by a totally independent set of people - in which case, what communications/synchronisation protocols are in place between the 2 disparate groups? BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 07 January 2010 01:47:48 Martin Schlander wrote:
Only.. either Lubos or Will should promise to blog about it.. announcing major repo changes on the list only doesn't reach enough people :-)
Thanks for the reminder :) Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org
participants (14)
-
Basil Chupin -
Daniel Fuhrmann -
Dirk Müller -
Jon Nelson -
Karsten König -
Lubos Lunak -
Martin Schlander -
Olav P. -
Rajko M. -
Roman Bysh -
Sven Burmeister -
Tejas Guruswamy -
Tony -
Will Stephenson