Hugo Costelha wrote:

On Friday 20 October 2006 11:56, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

We're currently planning to produce the following media for installation:

* 5 CDs, you need CDs 1-3 for a normal installation with just GNOME or KDE (any language)

* 1 AddOn CD with only binary packages on it

* 1 AddOn CD with language packages that are used for our tier 2 languages (tier 1 languages are english, french, italian, spanish, german, chinese, japanese and czech - and support for those is on the standard 5 CDs) (the 5 CDs have support for installation in *all* languages, just extra packages are only on this extra media)

* 1 DVD containing the contents of the above 7 media (the DVD will only come with the final version to save bandwidth and mirror space)

I agree with all the others, but only partial with this one.

I think that one idea that has been mentioned, and that it would work rather well, is to also distribute the DVD for all the alfa/beta stages, but only through torrent. This way you wouldn't waste bandwidth with your mirros, you would actually save some bandiwidth, and you would make many people happy in just recording one media device to do all the beta tests.

...

* a FTP tree with open source packages (only for the final version)

* a FTP tree with binary packages (only for the final version)

The DVD we delivered with Alpha5 has the content of the above mentioned DVD,

Andreas

Hugo Costelha --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bittorrent or bitdrip as I call it penalises everyone, a very bad suggestion. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hugo Costelha wrote:

On Friday 20 October 2006 12:38, Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Hugo Costelha wrote:

...

On Friday 20 October 2006 11:56, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

We're currently planning to produce the following media for installation:

* 5 CDs, you need CDs 1-3 for a normal installation with just GNOME or KDE (any language)

* 1 AddOn CD with only binary packages on it

* 1 AddOn CD with language packages that are used for our tier 2 languages (tier 1 languages are english, french, italian, spanish, german, chinese, japanese and czech - and support for those is on the standard 5 CDs) (the 5 CDs have support for installation in *all* languages, just extra packages are only on this extra media)

* 1 DVD containing the contents of the above 7 media (the DVD will only come with the final version to save bandwidth and mirror space) I agree with all the others, but only partial with this one.

I think that one idea that has been mentioned, and that it would work rather well, is to also distribute the DVD for all the alfa/beta stages, but only through torrent. This way you wouldn't waste bandwidth with your mirros, you would actually save some bandiwidth, and you would make many people happy in just recording one media device to do all the beta tests.

...

* a FTP tree with open source packages (only for the final version)

* a FTP tree with binary packages (only for the final version)

The DVD we delivered with Alpha5 has the content of the above mentioned DVD,

Andreas Hugo Costelha

---

To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org Bittorrent or bitdrip as I call it penalises everyone, a very bad suggestion.

Who would be penalized by this and how? Could you please elaborate on your repl

The way it is now, there is no DVD during beta testing at all. And remember, I am only talking about the DVD during beta testing.

Hugo Costelha

In my expeeeerince of bittorrent in downloading CD's, it takes days to get a set, whereas using ftp it's a matter of hours using a 10M cable broadband link. However I have set download/upload weights, it's been just too slow. If that is not the common experience, I would like to know the proper setup. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Martin Schlander wrote:

Lørdag 21 oktober 2006 04:03 skrev Sid Boyce:

...

In my expeeeerince of bittorrent in downloading CD's, it takes days to get a set, whereas using ftp it's a matter of hours using a 10M cable broadband link. However I have set download/upload weights, it's been just too slow. If that is not the common experience, I would like to know the proper setup.

It is not a matter of setup (primarily at least), it is not a matter of protocols either.

It's a simple matter of how many people seed, their allowed upload bandwidth and their share ratio. If many people seed bittorrent can potentially be a lot faster than ftp and with a lot less load on the mirrors.

In the current state of things bittorrent is not the fastest way - but _you_ could help change that by not only thinking about your immediate convenience.

I hope Peter Czanik's offer is accepted. And that if it doesn't mean a lot of extra work we can have fast bittorrent downloads of dvd isos.

Is Eberhard out there somewhere trying to avoid this issue? Can gwdg.de seed?

The GWDG FTP servers have a different task, and I will not "pollute" them with such scripting stuff. But at release time Christoph will prepare a bittorrent seeder again at GWDG, in a different server, like he did before. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Martin Schlander wrote:

Lørdag 21 oktober 2006 13:13 skrev Eberhard Moenkeberg:

...

But at release time Christoph will prepare a bittorrent seeder again at GWDG, in a different server, like he did before.

Great. Between you guys, Peter Czanik and perhaps some of the official servers it should be possible to get some momentum going I'd think and more bittorrent users would appear. Which would benefit users and mirror admins alike. And at the same time it would be possible to provide DVD isos, solving many issues with one stroke. Am I not correct?

Maybe Christoph, like Peter, should _only_ seed the DVD isos.

I normally always download all SUSE stuff with Azureus. Then I always keep them seeding like till they've gone for about 20 GB. Like now I have the remastered ISOs going with 45 - 50 peers, I've kept it going since it came out. There are 105 - 110 other seeders in my swarm. The speed of the swarm is just over 2 MB/s. I've kept doing these seedings about two years now and roughly after 20 - 25 GB I normally would start with next torrent. Everything depends on what other stuff I down/upload, sometimes I pause the SUSE torrents for a while to get something else. Then start again. I think if a lot of us do the same this shit works big time :) -- Vahis Sometimes I reply to top posters. Seldom. And usually just once. Motorcycling, Boating and SUSE Linux: http://waxborg.servepics.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 13:00 +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

Lørdag 21 oktober 2006 04:03 skrev Sid Boyce:

...

In my expeeeerince of bittorrent in downloading CD's, it takes days to get a set, whereas using ftp it's a matter of hours using a 10M cable broadband link. However I have set download/upload weights, it's been just too slow. If that is not the common experience, I would like to know the proper setup.

It is not a matter of setup (primarily at least), it is not a matter of protocols either.

It's a simple matter of how many people seed,

This I would say is the only issue, people use torrent to download and choke off any upload to others making torrent slow to others. This is why I only use FTP. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Kenneth Schneider wrote:

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 13:00 +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

...

In my expeeeerince of bittorrent in downloading CD's, it takes days to get a set, whereas using ftp it's a matter of hours using a 10M cable broadband link. However I have set download/upload weights, it's been just too slow. If that is not the common experience, I would like to know the proper setup. It is not a matter of setup (primarily at least), it is not a matter of

Lørdag 21 oktober 2006 04:03 skrev Sid Boyce: protocols either.

It's a simple matter of how many people seed,

This I would say is the only issue, people use torrent to download and choke off any upload to others making torrent slow to others. This is why I only use FTP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

I guessed as much, I've not tried openSUSE, all previous torrents were of Mandrake/Mandriva. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 13:00 +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

I hope Peter Czanik's offer is accepted. And that if it doesn't mean a lot of extra work we can have fast bittorrent downloads of dvd isos.

Is Eberhard out there somewhere trying to avoid this issue? Can gwdg.de seed?

This really is missing the whole point of bittorrent. It's not good enough that a few servers seed. If all downloaders seed, it will be faster for everyone. It's a pity that most people don't think that far (or at all) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

I like it very much to see more packages on the CDs/DVD. (7 CDs vs 5CDs for 10.0) I like this decision. I would really like to see an optional second DVD that has all the rest packages from the FTP tree (otherwise I will download the tree anyways). In real world, it is much faster to spend a day or two to download everything and then just spend few seconds installing rare stuff from the second DVD. (instead of minutes for installing from FTP) Debians practises Dual DVDs since 3.1, I think as their "official" thingie. Another topic: Linspire have proprietary codecs on their "Freespire" distro. So, I assume distributing those is legal... Can we include those codecs on our "closed-source CD" ? Andreas Jaeger: keep up the good work ! -Fenix*NBK*. 22.10.2006. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hello, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

In real world, it is much faster to spend a day or two to download everything and then just spend few seconds installing rare stuff from the second DVD. (instead of minutes for installing from FTP)

Ah - different use case than most others do ;-)

I also belong to this minority. All I do is an --exclude='*/x86_64/*', as I don't have (yet) an Opteron, just Centrino and PowerPC. I have an up-to-date mirror of 10.0, 10.1 and factory at home :-)

...

Linspire have proprietary codecs on their "Freespire" distro. So, I assume distributing those is legal... Can we include those codecs on our "closed-source CD" ?

We can only include those that we have contracts for.

And would it be difficult to make some more extra contracts? I never liked Linspire/Freespire, as most of the distribution is rather limited, but they certainly have an edge in the codecs area. And while I take part in the Packman effort, and recompile what I can on PowerPC, out of the box support could attract more users. Bye, -- CzP http://peter.czanik.hu/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi all, maybe I am offtopic, but I think openSuSE could learn something from Ubuntu. I think that openSuSE should have had extra install sources installed by default ( like Packmann, Guru etc.), and Admin should "just" enable them, read some obligate message about violating law and that these sources are community maintained and blah blah ;) I think THIS could attract more users to openSuSE, that the additionall codecs are accessible for them, and that it's their decission to use them or not. Just my opinion. Again I am sorry, If I am off or this idea was discussed before... Best wishes Jozef Peterka AKA KaiSVK

Peter Czanik writes:

...

[...] And would it be difficult to make some more extra contracts? I never liked Linspire/Freespire, as most of the distribution is rather limited, but they certainly have an edge in the codecs area. And while I take part in the Packman effort, and recompile what I can on PowerPC, out of the box support could attract more users. Bye,

We do our best, not everything is that easy,

Andreas

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...

Ubuntu. I think that openSuSE should have had extra install sources installed by default ( like Packmann, Guru etc.), and Admin should "just" enable them, read some obligate message about violating law and that these sources are community maintained and blah blah ;)

We cannot even offer law violating options. And not even textfiles describing them.

Understood. But if Ubuntu is doing it, how do they get away with it? Is it because it isn't an American company (if indeed they aren't)? Many years ago one of the great advantages of SuSE was that it wasn't American, and I felt sorry for the Canadians because they had to eat the American poo. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hugo Costelha writes:

[...] I think that one idea that has been mentioned, and that it would work rather well, is to also distribute the DVD for all the alfa/beta stages, but only through torrent. This way you wouldn't waste bandwidth with your mirros, you would actually save some bandiwidth, and you would make many people happy in just recording one media device to do all the beta tests.

We would still seed it from our servers - at least initially - and experience has shown that our servers are saturated, it will not work if this is just our servers. If a couple of mirrors help with bittorrent seeding, we will see what and when we can do this, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Hugo Costelha writes:

On Friday 20 October 2006 12:56, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Hugo Costelha writes:

...

[...] I think that one idea that has been mentioned, and that it would work rather well, is to also distribute the DVD for all the alfa/beta stages, but only through torrent. This way you wouldn't waste bandwidth with your mirros, you would actually save some bandiwidth, and you would make many people happy in just recording one media device to do all the beta tests.

We would still seed it from our servers - at least initially - and experience has shown that our servers are saturated, it will not work if this is just our servers. If a couple of mirrors help with bittorrent seeding, we will see what and when we can do this,

You could allow only mirroring access (rsync et all) to the torrent to your servers to prevent that, and this way only mirror would be used, right?

This would be something to do for the bittorrent DVD - but I'm not aware of mirrors helping us, most are not allowed to use torrent in their setup, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Carlos E. R. schrieb:

1) ¿Where will go what on 10.1 when to the non-oss tree (non-oss-inst-source)? ¿For instance, where will go the package for Pine? Maybe this has been discussed previously :-?

Have a look at /suse/install/10.2/inst-source-extra on any ftp.suse.com mirror. ;-) (Yes, pine is there, because it is distributed with source code, but not under a real OSS license.)

2) ¿Is it possible, at install time from DVD, to add an FTP source for whatever is not in the DVD? ¿Or a local directory?

This is already possible via the Add-On Product dialog displayed at the very beginning of the system installation, before the package installation starts (hopefully working without aborting the entire installation in 10.2). Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org