[opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at the corporate level anyway!!

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Re: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show...

Fred A. Miller

5 Jul 2008 5 Jul '08

21:25

I rec'd a call from a sys. admin. out int he mid-west. He was looking to replace RH on a LARGE number of desktops AND servers, until he tried to install Antivir which has a dependency of dazuko. Now, if you want to be the "top dog" in the corporate world, you DON'T make it impossible or nearly so to run Antivir on openSUSE 11.0 by not allowing dazuko to run, nor be able to compile it. It appears to me and to MANY others that only one security module is allowed to run on openSUSE 11.0 and that is it's own AppArmor. Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Carlos E. R.

5 Jul 5 Jul

23:51

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 17:25 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release.

Instead of grumbling, you and/or the prospective users could have tested 11.0 while it was beta and reported the problem in time. Or, being business, they could use the business version, ie, sles. On the other hand the problem is being actively investigated and a solution is near, as you can easily investigate and find out. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcAkbtTMYHG2NR9URAoITAJ4oXHwJvhiaWwVgOWz6ERzvcI92UQCfYyl6 JOr8NHJDHS4Yb1OpMFRlsVg= =YzIq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

6 Jul 6 Jul

00:14

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 17:25 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release.

Instead of grumbling, you and/or the prospective users could have tested 11.0 while it was beta and reported the problem in time. Or, being business, they could use the business version, ie, sles.

Carlos, don't even go there. I had no reason to even mess with Antivir till recently....AFTER 11.0 released. Now, there are sys. admins. who are testing 11.0 to replace either MickySoft and/or a diff. distro. like RH. Well, it's NOT going to happen simply because someone dropped the ball and released a compiled dazuko that won't run. Does this affect me? No....not that much, because if I need a version that does run out-of-the-box for a business, I'll simply use another disto. that does...no problem. So, this hurts Novell and openSUSE a whole lot more than it does me.

...

On the other hand the problem is being actively investigated and a solution is near, as you can easily investigate and find out.

I didn't read anything like that.....but thanks for the info. It's too late for one site, I think. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:46

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 20:14 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: ...

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So, this hurts Novell and openSUSE a whole lot more than it does me.

No, I don't think so, because they and you are not doing a fair evaluation, as anybody can see.

...

I didn't read anything like that.....but thanks for the info. It's too late for one site, I think.

Plonk them. They are not worth it, if they base their evaluation for business security uses on a newly released version instead of a sound business release or at least, a seasoned, mature release, and they do it in such a non... engineering approach. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcBXztTMYHG2NR9URAlEkAKCW41LsDkBNIJKri/g4ywHAxAJWTgCfePVd dU6paRpbmayHVq0Ziepnvp4= =LOw7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andrew Joakimsen

08:09

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 17:25 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release.

Instead of grumbling, you and/or the prospective users could have tested 11.0 while it was beta and reported the problem in time. Or, being business, they could use the business version, ie, sles.

Carlos, don't even go there. I had no reason to even mess with Antivir till recently....AFTER 11.0 released. Now, there are sys. admins. who are testing 11.0 to replace either MickySoft and/or a diff. distro. like RH. Well, it's NOT going to happen simply because someone dropped the ball and released a compiled dazuko that won't run. Does this affect me? No....not that much, because if I need a version that does run out-of-the-box for a business, I'll simply use another disto. that does...no problem.

So, this hurts Novell and openSUSE a whole lot more than it does me.

...
On the other hand the problem is being actively investigated and a solution is near, as you can easily investigate and find out.

I didn't read anything like that.....but thanks for the info. It's too late for one site, I think.

Are they not using long software maintenance cycles? That is the "norm" in any large managed corporate IT environment (just because SUSE 11, RHEL 5, Windows Vista, etc came out <1 month ago doesn't mean you need to go and suddenly upgrade all the systems) Part of that life cycle includes testing and resolving know issues. By ranting on the mailing list you aren't doing much to get it to work. You have not posted any description of the problem except for "it doesn't work" and implying that somehow openSUSE was coded to explicitly disallow the software from running. Did all software work out of the box the day or even a month after Windows Vista was released? No. Did all the large IT shops suddenly jump the gun and upgrade their workstations? No, but I'm sure they they begun testing it and trying to resolve the issues they found with the relavant vendors. Heck this year I've seen a few cases of Windows 2000 systems replaced with Windows XP systems (usually the hardware and OS lifecycles are the same) An off-the-shelf antivirus is the least of your concerns.. the issue should be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. I'd worry more about testing and correcting any inhouse/custom applications. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

7 Jul 7 Jul

14:56

Andrew Joakimsen wrote:

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On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 17:25 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release. Instead of grumbling, you and/or the prospective users could have tested 11.0 while it was beta and reported the problem in time. Or, being business, they could use the business version, ie, sles.

Carlos, don't even go there. I had no reason to even mess with Antivir till recently....AFTER 11.0 released. Now, there are sys. admins. who are testing 11.0 to replace either MickySoft and/or a diff. distro. like RH. Well, it's NOT going to happen simply because someone dropped the ball and released a compiled dazuko that won't run. Does this affect me? No....not that much, because if I need a version that does run out-of-the-box for a business, I'll simply use another disto. that does...no problem.

So, this hurts Novell and openSUSE a whole lot more than it does me.

...
On the other hand the problem is being actively investigated and a solution is near, as you can easily investigate and find out. I didn't read anything like that.....but thanks for the info. It's too late for one site, I think.

Are they not using long software maintenance cycles? That is the "norm" in any large managed corporate IT environment (just because SUSE 11, RHEL 5, Windows Vista, etc came out <1 month ago doesn't mean you need to go and suddenly upgrade all the systems) Part of that life cycle includes testing and resolving know issues. By ranting on the mailing list you aren't doing much to get it to work. You have not posted any description of the problem except for "it doesn't work" and implying that somehow openSUSE was coded to explicitly disallow the software from running.

Either that or didn't fix the problem before release.

...

Did all software work out of the box the day or even a month after Windows Vista was released? No. Did all the large IT shops suddenly jump the gun and upgrade their workstations? No, but I'm sure they they begun testing it and trying to resolve the issues they found with the relavant vendors. Heck this year I've seen a few cases of Windows 2000 systems replaced with Windows XP systems (usually the hardware and OS lifecycles are the same)

An off-the-shelf antivirus is the least of your concerns.. the issue should be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. I'd worry more about testing and correcting any inhouse/custom applications.

If people would only learn to read. It's NOT a big concern of mine, but it IS for business!! My point was that a very large organization was considering a POSSIBLE Linux change. Security out-of-the-box that doesn't work, ISN'T impressive in the least. This loss doesn't affect me directly, only that the test was done on my recommendation. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider

15:00

Fred A. Miller pecked at the keyboard and wrote: <snip>

...

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testing and correcting any inhouse/custom applications.

If people would only learn to read. It's NOT a big concern of mine, but it IS for business!! My point was that a very large organization was considering a POSSIBLE Linux change. Security out-of-the-box that doesn't work, ISN'T impressive in the least. This loss doesn't affect me directly, only that the test was done on my recommendation.

Fred

Then why not recommend that they try again because the fix has been submitted and can be fixed/downloaded during the install process. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:34

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-07-07 at 10:56 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: ...

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POSSIBLE Linux change. Security out-of-the-box that doesn't work, ISN'T impressive in the least. This loss doesn't affect me directly, only that the test was done on my recommendation.

Then the fault is yours for not recommending a proven version :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcqgOtTMYHG2NR9URArLIAJ9mVIa8q6qmfzWsSOXP55vJCl44wgCfQSHK nzSHRDb3F2ID2HQNAeu38ao= =X+k8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

8 Jul 8 Jul

00:09

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Monday 2008-07-07 at 10:56 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

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POSSIBLE Linux change. Security out-of-the-box that doesn't work, ISN'T impressive in the least. This loss doesn't affect me directly, only that the test was done on my recommendation.

Then the fault is yours for not recommending a proven version :-P

NO, it isn't! It work properly in 10.3 and it SHOULDN'T have been broken in 11.0.....period. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-07-07 at 20:09 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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Then the fault is yours for not recommending a proven version :-P

NO, it isn't! It work properly in 10.3 and it SHOULDN'T have been broken in 11.0.....period.

Just my point, 11.0 is not a proven version. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcrE6tTMYHG2NR9URAi9oAJ9zGhG3njyhbUhVOguSTZYaJ0MbawCfcYEU kMP/vpkD+mVzWan5GzsgawQ= =PVwM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

00:27

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Monday 2008-07-07 at 20:09 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
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Then the fault is yours for not recommending a proven version :-P

...
NO, it isn't! It work properly in 10.3 and it SHOULDN'T have been broken in 11.0.....period.

Just my point, 11.0 is not a proven version.

In most areas, it's as solid as a grape ape......this was the only thing that has "bitten" me in the butt, and something I hadn't tested. I think because I hadn't that all of a sudden clients want it, and a good friend of mine in the mid-west who heads up a large state agency started looking to maybe change distros. (RH) asked me about openSUSE 11. They have a lot of new hardware and if they make a change, it has to be "smooth" and quick. 11.0, as it is, WON'T do it. I suggested to him that they don't do anything till the end of the month and see what improvements have been made in regard to dazuko then. By the way, dazuko is the ONLY issue they have at this point. But, it IS a show stopper. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Willem Meens

6 Jul 6 Jul

13:16

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at the corporate level anyway!!

Fred, As I've seen mentioned in forums.opensuse.org there is a bug open for this including a patch that seems to fix things, so they are real close to resolving it all together.. have a look here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=401920 Good luck! Wj On Sat, 2008-07-05 at 20:14 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
The Saturday 2008-07-05 at 17:25 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
Now, is all this correct or not?! IF not, then why did openSUSE 11.0 ship with a defective dazuko?! Antivir may not be critical for me, but it sure is for businesses of mixed environment. Someone had to know that this was defective before release.

Instead of grumbling, you and/or the prospective users could have tested 11.0 while it was beta and reported the problem in time. Or, being business, they could use the business version, ie, sles.

Carlos, don't even go there. I had no reason to even mess with Antivir till recently....AFTER 11.0 released. Now, there are sys. admins. who are testing 11.0 to replace either MickySoft and/or a diff. distro. like RH. Well, it's NOT going to happen simply because someone dropped the ball and released a compiled dazuko that won't run. Does this affect me? No....not that much, because if I need a version that does run out-of-the-box for a business, I'll simply use another disto. that does...no problem.

So, this hurts Novell and openSUSE a whole lot more than it does me.

...
On the other hand the problem is being actively investigated and a solution is near, as you can easily investigate and find out.

I didn't read anything like that.....but thanks for the info. It's too late for one site, I think.

Fred

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Fred A. Miller

7 Jul 7 Jul

14:58

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at the corporate level anyway!!

Willem Meens wrote:

...

Fred,

As I've seen mentioned in forums.opensuse.org there is a bug open for this including a patch that seems to fix things, so they are real close to resolving it all together.. have a look here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=401920

Thanks.....I'll check it out later today. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Ann Davis

16:31

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at the corporate level anyway!!

Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

Willem Meens wrote:

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Fred,

As I've seen mentioned in forums.opensuse.org there is a bug open for this including a patch that seems to fix things, so they are real close to resolving it all together.. have a look here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=401920

Some history (summarizing the info in the bug): - www.dazuko.org provided dazuko as an external kernel module using the kernel's Linux Security Module (LSM) interface. - The upstream kernel stopped exporting the Linux Security Module (LSM) interface. - So www.dazuko.org then provided dazuko as a kernel patch. - openSUSE elected to keep dazuko as an external module using redirfs (www.redirfs.org) instead of LSM. A new redirfs 0.3 (expected this summer) will improve the stability of this dazuko+redirfs approach. - So the options for openSUSE users are: 1) wait for the the openSUSE dazuko+redirfs patch (sometime this summer), or 2) apply the dazuko kernel patch and rebuild the kernel. - Note: For those who wish to use the dazuko kernel patch, please use the slightly modified patch attached to the bug. (The www.dazuko.org patch didn't work on openSUSE.) Ann --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

17:20

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at the corporate level anyway!!

Ann Davis wrote:

...

Fred A. Miller wrote:

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Willem Meens wrote:

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Fred,

As I've seen mentioned in forums.opensuse.org there is a bug open for this including a patch that seems to fix things, so they are real close to resolving it all together.. have a look here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=401920

Some history (summarizing the info in the bug):

- www.dazuko.org provided dazuko as an external kernel module using the kernel's Linux Security Module (LSM) interface. - The upstream kernel stopped exporting the Linux Security Module (LSM) interface. - So www.dazuko.org then provided dazuko as a kernel patch. - openSUSE elected to keep dazuko as an external module using redirfs (www.redirfs.org) instead of LSM. A new redirfs 0.3 (expected this summer) will improve the stability of this dazuko+redirfs approach. - So the options for openSUSE users are: 1) wait for the the openSUSE dazuko+redirfs patch (sometime this summer), or 2) apply the dazuko kernel patch and rebuild the kernel. - Note: For those who wish to use the dazuko kernel patch, please use the slightly modified patch attached to the bug. (The www.dazuko.org patch didn't work on openSUSE.)

Ok......then it looks like it's NOT fixed yet. I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:32

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-07-07 at 13:20 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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- So the options for openSUSE users are: 1) wait for the the openSUSE dazuko+redirfs patch (sometime this summer), or 2) apply the dazuko kernel patch and rebuild the kernel. - Note: For those who wish to use the dazuko kernel patch, please use the slightly modified patch attached to the bug. (The www.dazuko.org patch didn't work on openSUSE.)

Ok......then it looks like it's NOT fixed yet. I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko.

But that's the "fault" of the kernel devs, not suse people. In fact, all distros will be affected as they upgrade their kernels. It might be argued that the fault is of the dazuko people for not including the code internal to the kernel. Placing the dazuko code, as is now, in the kernel (non module) requires distributing another (one more) version of the kernel, or each user compiling his own. The redirfs approach appears to not be working currently right. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcqeFtTMYHG2NR9URAqhlAJ9NtaoxeGKOXODaVD3mh/XEDC7E+wCfc0OW I4L6LmI4kwfurWKrqn5TARg= =DKor -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

8 Jul 8 Jul

00:08

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Monday 2008-07-07 at 13:20 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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- So the options for openSUSE users are: 1) wait for the the openSUSE dazuko+redirfs patch (sometime this summer), or 2) apply the dazuko kernel patch and rebuild the kernel. - Note: For those who wish to use the dazuko kernel patch, please use the slightly modified patch attached to the bug. (The www.dazuko.org patch didn't work on openSUSE.)

...
Ok......then it looks like it's NOT fixed yet. I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko.

But that's the "fault" of the kernel devs, not suse people. In fact, all distros will be affected as they upgrade their kernels. It might be argued that the fault is of the dazuko people for not including the code internal to the kernel.

That is possible. Why is it that things like this happen? Why is it that groups don't work together?!

...

Placing the dazuko code, as is now, in the kernel (non module) requires distributing another (one more) version of the kernel, or each user compiling his own. The redirfs approach appears to not be working currently right.

So I understand....supposed to be a new version by the end of this month that will correct all this. We can only hope. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:16

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-07-07 at 20:08 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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But that's the "fault" of the kernel devs, not suse people. In fact, all distros will be affected as they upgrade their kernels. It might be argued that the fault is of the dazuko people for not including the code internal to the kernel.

That is possible. Why is it that things like this happen? Why is it that groups don't work together?!

The kernel is a very fast moving target. Outside modules can be left behind without notice. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcrHotTMYHG2NR9URAtW3AJ91lmv9LXjJhcqzjLMVefuYrL97sQCfRctM ElAniKTyzlDDSmn7Jf4kUm4= =ulJn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

00:28

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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The Monday 2008-07-07 at 20:08 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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But that's the "fault" of the kernel devs, not suse people. In fact, all distros will be affected as they upgrade their kernels. It might be argued that the fault is of the dazuko people for not including the code internal to the kernel.

...
That is possible. Why is it that things like this happen? Why is it that groups don't work together?!

The kernel is a very fast moving target. Outside modules can be left behind without notice.

Then, something needs to be done so this doesn't happen. Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

00:46

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-07-07 at 20:28 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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The kernel is a very fast moving target. Outside modules can be left behind without notice.

Then, something needs to be done so this doesn't happen.

Watch that presentation and you will understand it (I did) :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcrjltTMYHG2NR9URArkGAJ0RsSeXGi3v9TSnQUmetYYOdgmUIQCfecup Z7i18lGyhJFVP4b1htesr4I= =LFDO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

7 Jul 7 Jul

23:35

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at theccorporate level anyway!!

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:20:00 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko.

Very simple and Ann wrote it: the upstream kernel maintainers decided to not export LSM anymore. And as dazuko isn't in the kernel source, it won't work anymore. That's the problem of *all* external kernel modules: i.e. their maintainers must make sure their code works with the latest kernel. Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:59

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at theccorporate level anyway!!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-07-08 at 01:35 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:20:00 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko.

Very simple and Ann wrote it: the upstream kernel maintainers decided to not export LSM anymore. And as dazuko isn't in the kernel source, it won't work anymore. That's the problem of *all* external kernel modules: i.e. their maintainers must make sure their code works with the latest kernel.

And if that big business decides to not use suse because of this dazuko thing, they are making wrong judgments and having wrong expectations and blaming the incorrect people; worse, their linux department is not up to standards. Not a very sound business practice :-P Maybe they should fire the linux department :-P This problem of externals modules reminds me of a presentation I was told recently to watch: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/greg-kroah-hartman-linux-kernel-video - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIcq3OtTMYHG2NR9URArU1AJ9r37b+H9Rir7BRIJG1fdT7BbKR4ACeLuCy ijSvJB9h2yQNDdFXTLbLDcg= =FahK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

8 Jul 8 Jul

00:11

New subject: [opensuse-factory] A BIG "show stopper" for openSUSE at theccorporate level anyway!!

Philipp Thomas wrote:

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On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:20:00 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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I won't ask why support was dropped for LSM before proper support for dazuko.

Very simple and Ann wrote it: the upstream kernel maintainers decided to not export LSM anymore. And as dazuko isn't in the kernel source, it won't work anymore. That's the problem of *all* external kernel modules: i.e. their maintainers must make sure their code works with the latest kernel.

Obviously. I apprecieated Ann explaining all that happened. Maybe those working on dazuko should be beat about the head and shoulders soundly as an example to others who don't get "with the program" as they should! ;) Fred -- This message originated from a Linux computer using Open Source software: openSuSE Linux 11.0 No Gates, no Windows....just Linux - STABLE & SECURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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participants (7)

Andrew Joakimsen
Ann Davis
Carlos E. R.
Fred A. Miller
Ken Schneider
Philipp Thomas
Willem Meens