On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

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On 17-01-2008 at 13:18, Druid wrote: On Jan 17, 2008 9:14 AM, Joachim Reichelt wrote: Hi,

can anyone tell me any reson for installing beagle?

What does this have to do with this list?

could be the moment to decide wether beage shall be included in the default installation set or not? So perfectly a valid question for this list, when targeting it at openSUSE 11.0 I for myself always uninstall it after the setup... bu I learnt to organize my files with folders and filenames ;)

I also uninstall it on every machine -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:48 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:31 +0100, Andreas Vetter wrote:

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On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

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I for myself always uninstall it after the setup... bu I learnt to ... I also uninstall it on every machine

Me too. I use Google Desktop Search because it is more mature tool and consumes less CPU power.

Its also indexes far less last time I checked. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

It is perfectly normal that an indexing tool is especially active when building an initial index. Whoever doesn't have the patience to wait this out and instead uninstalls Beagle instantly cannot really say anything about its footprint or usefulness IMHO. Apple users, for example, just _know_ that their search-tool (Sherlock or whatever it's called) put quite a load on in the beginning. I think removing Beagle would mean a serious regression. Just my 2 Cents. Chris Am Donnerstag, den 17.01.2008, 15:30 -0500 schrieb Hubert Figuiere:

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Me too. I use Google Desktop Search because it is more mature tool and consumes less CPU power.

Its also indexes far less last time I checked.

Not counting that we can't even fix it because it is non-Free software.

Hub

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We had almost endless discussion in opensuse@opensuse.org

It did kind of get out of hand... granted a few participants were more interested in inflammatory remarks.

nasty resource hog. That contradicts my experience, but except taking under loop google results, where it showed mix of obsolete articles and opinions, I had no much tools to prove my point that beagle is not a problem, at least not in that many cases.

I really don't understand that. My experience with Beagle has always been negative. Everyone I know (personally, not through mailing lists) who runs openSUSE also has the same experience. I was chatting with a friend yesterday about his computer. He mentioned that he had installed openSUSE10.3 about 2 weeks ago, and was commenting on the performance... how frustratingly slow it was at times. I suggested (from my own experience) that he stop and/or remove Beagle and see of that made any difference. He removed it and immediately the computer started working better. This was after Beagle was running for about 2 weeks. This fits in with my personal experiences... even after more than enough time for it to index. Same issue with my brother's computer.. an install with at least a week up constant uptime and he was having performance issues... especially while gaming... all resolved by removing Beagle. Now.. if that was consistent for everyone, it would point to a problem with Beagle, but there are people here saying it works great, and they can't imagine being without it. We have a group on one side who have real issues with Beagle... and on the other, a group who have no issues at all. The group who find it kills all system performance want it removed.. or at the very least, an opt-in option at install... the others think we're crazy... that we're whining... that we're trolling etc. It's a no win situation. I don't know what else to say... and I won't keep commenting here beyond this email... I'm willing to give Beagle a try now and then... as I do with all software included in the default install. I don't hate it.. I don't love it either. What I would like to understand is why there is a significant number of us that have real issues with it when it runs... even after a reasonable time for indexing... even when using the latest build... or at least the build that came with the 10.3 release ISOs. It's something I can't solve personally... nor will it be resolved with endless debates on the mailing lists. C --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

ps: I have three machines, 10.1 and 2 10.3, w/o *any* problems.

It could well be that you are not nearly as demanding of your computer as other are. For some of us, having the computer go comatose for a few hundred milliseconds is absolutely unacceptable, while you might not even notice. Those who do multimedia or gaming, especially, are the type who will most likely find beagle an unacceptable drag on performance and remove it. Those who use the computer only for less demanding tasks, such as reading email, browsing the web or writing the occasional document, may not see any problem with beagle and wonder what all the fuss is about. Joe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

Might be, and I *am* less demanding. The most I do is process > 60K 10MB raw images for web display while serving my own email and web site and listening to web-fm radio. Oh, and administering remotely 2 openSUSE boxes and 8 windoz machines.

You do all that on your desktop? Interesting. Even so, those types of tasks don't seem to require smooth low latency operation, as long as the throughput is acceptable. Joe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christian Jäger schreef:

The problem is that this whole Beagle-debate that we had in the early days quickly turned into a question of belief. Some swear Beagle is the root of all evi... ah, slowness, some don't see what the fuss is all about.

And we have/had the 'initial indexing' problem where people deinstall Beagle directly after installation which of course gives them a speed-up. But they (so is my opinion) would have experienced the same if they'd just waited it out.

So, agreeing with Rajko M., unless a credible source provides benchmarks that show a _considerable_ performance-drawback caused by Beagle, I think there is no objective reason to dump it from the default installation.

Greets, Chris

Over here Beagled uses 0.7 % CPU, and 0.1% Memory. You do not even notice it is there. I agree with all those people about the start index with beagle, is realy disastrous. It is such a drag, not to be able touse the mouse.. :-( But if all is indexed, it just has to keep up with what is added to it.. It might be not bad idea, to give beagle only to work in the background, and full, when no other activity is present, like 'away from pc', no mouse movements for 'x' minutes, like screensaver.. But whenever the user moves, it must imediately stop the activities, and go low profile. I find it amazing to see, how fast, and the kind of info it comes with... I think it is a usefull toy, and not only for them who have 'all their files organised'.. like me.. ;-) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.24-rc7-git5-2-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha0 KDE: 3.5.8 "release 34" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkeQV3sACgkQX5/X5X6LpDhO3gCcCKzskds2xC1d5oMgkBP721bz VRQAoMDu6EN8CS1Fdj1LRfiKfMFtbuaV =aEC1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

Now.. if that was consistent for everyone, it would point to a problem with Beagle, but there are people here saying it works great, and they can't imagine being without it.

We have a group on one side who have real issues with Beagle... and on the other, a group who have no issues at all. The group who find it kills all system performance want it removed.. or at the very least, an opt-in option at install... the others think we're crazy... that we're whining... that we're trolling etc. It's a no win situation.

I don't know what else to say... and I won't keep commenting here beyond this email... I'm willing to give Beagle a try now and then... as I do with all software included in the default install. I don't hate it.. I don't love it either. What I would like to understand is why there is a significant number of us that have real issues with it when it runs... even after a reasonable time for indexing... even when using the latest build... or at least the build that came with the 10.3 release ISOs.

I think there are some beagle bugs, possibly triggered by certain file types or file system layout, that cause beagle to spin out of control. I have two boxes running 10.3. One of them runs beagle all the time, and I don't notice it. If I did notice it, I would certainly disable it because this laptop is my main system and I don't really even use beagle that much. On the other box running 10.3, whenever I reboot I'm quickly reminded to go shut down beagle because the fans on that box will crank up and make lots of noise as beagle is stuck at 99% CPU usage (even if left running overnight). --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

The root of the problem seems to be, that all homes are on nfs and users are allowed to login multiple times on the same box (e.g. localhost:0 and localhost:2 (<CTRL><ALT>F9)) I'm gone to the "root" of the problem for a bugreport: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=510137 Andreas Jaeger schrieb:

Bart Whiteley writes:

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I think there are some beagle bugs, possibly triggered by certain file types or file system layout, that cause beagle to spin out of control. I have two boxes running 10.3. One of them runs beagle all the time, and I don't notice it. If I did notice it, I would certainly disable it because this laptop is my main system and I don't really even use beagle that much. On the other box running 10.3, whenever I reboot I'm quickly reminded to go shut down beagle because the fans on that box will crank up and make lots of noise as beagle is stuck at 99% CPU usage (even if left running overnight).

If you - or anybody with this problem - could figure out why this occurs, e.g. what file it indexes, and create a bug report such that others can reproduce it, it would be really great!

Andreas

-- Joachim --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, den 17.01.2008, 21:11 +0000 schrieb peter nikolic:

On Thursday 17 January 2008, Christian Jäger wrote:

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It is perfectly normal that an indexing tool is especially active when building an initial index. Whoever doesn't have the patience to wait Beagle should be an OPTION not a preset thing .

I would think very few people using Opensuse on the desktop either at work or at home do not need Beagle and prefere a faster more responsive machine to one that is faffing around building an unwanted index of some form . Again, I strongly doubt that; few people are properly organized (I'm not), otherwise Google Desktop wouldn't be the success it is.

If responsiveness and speed are the only qualities we are looking for in a distribution, then we should throw out Tomboy first because it slows down startup of GNOME considerably - oh yeah; and GNOME main-menu. Don't misunderstand me, I love Tomboy - but please understand that your own usage of a computer might not be the typical case. And, as said, there are features in openSUSE which have a much more negative impact on machine responsiveness than Beagle. Ultimately you have to decide whether you want a feature-oriented distribution or a slim and speedy distribution. SUSE has always tended to be feature-oriented, and that is why I am using it. Greets, Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

(being someone interested in the beagle decision and somewhat responsible for its packaging) put together a summary of the issues real/perceived, known bugs and a list of the options. I should be able to do this sometime next week.

This would be very interesting (at least to me). the problem with Beagle that some of us are having could very well be down to perception... myself included. Maybe there is a clue in there that can be used to change the default behavior of Beagle... like for example to limit it's indexing particularly immediately after install... and so on... Ooops, I said I wasn't going to send any more messages on this topic :-) C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 17:12 -0500, JP Rosevear wrote:

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 22:57 +0100, Christian Jäger wrote:

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Am Donnerstag, den 17.01.2008, 21:11 +0000 schrieb peter nikolic:

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On Thursday 17 January 2008, Christian Jäger wrote:

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It is perfectly normal that an indexing tool is especially active when building an initial index. Whoever doesn't have the patience to wait Beagle should be an OPTION not a preset thing .

I would think very few people using Opensuse on the desktop either at work or at home do not need Beagle and prefere a faster more responsive machine to one that is faffing around building an unwanted index of some form . Again, I strongly doubt that; few people are properly organized (I'm not), otherwise Google Desktop wouldn't be the success it is.

Before this goes on and on like the opensuse@ thread, I propose that I (being someone interested in the beagle decision and somewhat responsible for its packaging) put together a summary of the issues real/perceived, known bugs and a list of the options. I should be able to do this sometime next week.

One note is that there really hasn't been a precedent for discussing distro changes like this in public, its generally been up to "the powers that be" - either the team leads or developers at Novell for various components or coolo/aj to make this decision so this is kind of a change.

Haven't forgotten about this, just got real busy, will follow up soon. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 14:59 -0500, JP Rosevear wrote:

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:48 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

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Me too. I use Google Desktop Search because it is more mature tool and consumes less CPU power. Its also indexes far less last time I checked.

That's nice to hear, thanks! I'll test it on Factory over the weekend. Cheers! -- Igor Jagec

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 16:59 -0800, Joe Sloan wrote:

Not to sound a discordant note, but I found that with google desktop running, thunderbird (and some other apps I can't recall off hand) would not start.

Thunderbird works just fine with GDS on my openSUSE 10.3.

Once I saw that stopping google desktop fixed the problem, I didn't troubleshoot further due to lack of time/interest.

It would be very interesting to see what stops it running since it works just fine with GDS on my machine. I've never experienced any problem with GDS so far. Maybe I was just lucky, I don't know. Cheers! -- Igor Jagec

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 19:26 -0600, Hans Petter Jansson wrote:

On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 01:53 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

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On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 14:59 -0500, JP Rosevear wrote:

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On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:48 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

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Me too. I use Google Desktop Search because it is more mature tool and consumes less CPU power.

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Its also indexes far less last time I checked.

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That's nice to hear, thanks! I'll test it on Factory over the weekend.

I suspect that what JP is saying, is that it indexes far fewer file formats, not that its indexer runs faster. At least, that's how I read it. It looks like you read it differently, since your reply is so positive :)

Yes, fewer file formats is what I meant. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 19:25 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 19:26 -0600, Hans Petter Jansson wrote:

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On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 01:53 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

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On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 14:59 -0500, JP Rosevear wrote:

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On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:48 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

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Me too. I use Google Desktop Search because it is more mature tool and consumes less CPU power. Its also indexes far less last time I checked. That's nice to hear, thanks! I'll test it on Factory over the weekend. I suspect that what JP is saying, is that it indexes far fewer file formats, not that its indexer runs faster. At least, that's how I read it. It looks like you read it differently, since your reply is so positive :)

Yep, I've read it differently :(

BTW I've noticed that it indexes fewer file formats than GDS (which is one of the reasons why I use GDS), but I'll test it on Factory anyway. On my openSUSE 10.3 I'll keep using GDS for now.

Ok, but I think he meant that GDS indexes fewer file formats than Beagle :) -- Hans Petter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 00:34 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:

On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 14:43 -0600, Hans Petter Jansson wrote:

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BTW I've noticed that it indexes fewer file formats than GDS (which is one of the reasons why I use GDS), but I'll test it on Factory anyway. On my openSUSE 10.3 I'll keep using GDS for now. Ok, but I think he meant that GDS indexes fewer file formats than Beagle :)

Whoops... :o)

I see it's been a very long time since I've played with Beagle last, and now is right time to test it on my Factory installation :)

FYI, 0.3.2 will be available in Factory next week probably. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dominique Leuenberger schreef:

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On 17-01-2008 at 13:18, Druid wrote: On Jan 17, 2008 9:14 AM, Joachim Reichelt wrote: Hi,

can anyone tell me any reson for installing beagle? What does this have to do with this list?

could be the moment to decide wether beage shall be included in the default installation set or not? So perfectly a valid question for this list, when targeting it at openSUSE 11.0 I for myself always uninstall it after the setup... bu I learnt to organize my files with folders and filenames ;)

Dominique

I allways uninstalled beagle until now. it works in the background, but answers my questions very fast.. The way it is now, is for me completely acceptable... If these things change, i will notice, and ring a bell. ;-) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.24-rc7-git5-2-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha0 KDE: 3.5.8 "release 34" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkePPv0ACgkQX5/X5X6LpDgzSwCg210yar8mcGBuqTFidHvPigp9 kq8AoK1z+yHpjm4pSZYcwm4K4JZ2V8Ru =Cxhg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org