[opensuse-factory] rug / zypper comparision
Hi, I'm getting with this to the factory list as I don't want to bother 'regular user support' in the opensuse-ML. Everybody nowadays is talking about how much better zypper would be compared to rug/zmd. Can somebody just in short tell me where the advantage is? Ok: it does not use the zm-daemon, but this one is running quiet nice in 10.2 (didn't have to many probs yet.. or I'm not aware of them...) On the other hand, with zypper, I always have to su just to install a single package. That's something I like about rug for example: I can add a catalog as su, subscribe to it, and from there my users are allowed to grab packages. Without knowing the su password. But they are not allowed to install an rpm using rug (at least that was what my test showed me: it's ok to INstall from a subscribed catalog, but nor from a local rpm) And in overall, rug feels 'faster' for me compared to zypper. This especially as zypper, whenever I do something like zypper lu or zypper se, refreshes the catalogs. There seems to be no caching at all or it's not working for me. and this makes zypper quiet slow. rug OTOH just gives me the requested output. The fact, that an update can happen on a repo just in the time between the last refresh, is quiet low. I admit, in some cases this lead to unresolvable dependencies. So: I'm looking forward to hear some other statements, maybe corrections. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting with this to the factory list as I don't want to bother 'regular user support' in the opensuse-ML.
Everybody nowadays is talking about how much better zypper would be compared to rug/zmd. Can somebody just in short tell me where the advantage is? Ok: it does not use the zm-daemon, but this one is running quiet nice in 10.2 (didn't have to many probs yet.. or I'm not aware of them...)
On the other hand, with zypper, I always have to su just to install a single package.
That's something I like about rug for example: I can add a catalog as su, subscribe to it, and from there my users are allowed to grab packages. Without knowing the su password. But they are not allowed to install an rpm using rug (at least that was what my test showed me: it's ok to INstall from a subscribed catalog, but nor from a local rpm)
zypper was meant as a lightweight replacement for rug/zmd for users who don't need complex enterprise level sw management. Rug uses zmd (which runs as root) to perform this task, so it does not need to be run as root itself. For this kind of task rug is the preferred tool. To add a bit to zypper's drawbacks, the fact is that currently you need root privileges also to perform a search query with zypper. But this one is planned to be fixed.
And in overall, rug feels 'faster' for me compared to zypper. This especially as zypper, whenever I do something like zypper lu or zypper se, refreshes the catalogs. There seems to be no caching at all or it's not working for me. and this makes zypper quiet slow. rug OTOH just gives me the requested output. The fact, that an update can happen on a repo just in the time between the last refresh, is quiet low. I admit, in some cases this lead to unresolvable dependencies.
This is an unfortunate feature of libzypp which manifests in both yast and zypper and we are working on solution. In fact libzypp does not refresh the sources all the time, only if changed. The thing that causes the delays is parsing of the cached meta-data. This will be solved ASAP and will take that burden off yast as well.
So: I'm looking forward to hear some other statements, maybe corrections.
Apart from the above drawbacks, zypper is an alternative for users who don't need special functionalities offered by ZLM and want a command line tool for perfoming simple software management tasks. With zypper, users are not annoyed by waiting for the zmd daemon to wake up when they needed to use rug occasionally. Also there are several annoying bugs in rug, which zypper doesn't have. Last thing to add is that zypper is still in an early development stage and will improve. hth -- Jan Kupec, YaST team --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag 05 januar 2007 15:45 skrev Jan Kupec:
Last thing to add is that zypper is still in an early development stage and will improve.
Does rug have an equivalent to the "zypper sh" functionality? Maybe it's irrelevant because of the daemon, not sure, haven't used rug/zmd much. I also believe that if you add repos with zypper you can assign an alias that applies to YaST2, don't think that works with rug - not 100% sure. But for me I have to say that I find working directly with libzypp is a very, very important feature that makes zypper a clear number one in my book. Saves synchronization, works around the unreliability of zmd etc. I think it was a great idea to do zypper and I can't wait for it to mature more and be more polished. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag 05 januar 2007 17:44 skrev Martin Schlander:
Fredag 05 januar 2007 15:45 skrev Jan Kupec:
Last thing to add is that zypper is still in an early development stage and will improve.
Does rug have an equivalent to the "zypper sh" functionality? Maybe it's irrelevant because of the daemon, not sure, haven't used rug/zmd much.
I also believe that if you add repos with zypper you can assign an alias that applies to YaST2, don't think that works with rug - not 100% sure.
Thought of another thing. I guess zypper supports deltarpms, but rug doesn't, does it? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 01:22:38AM +0100, Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag 05 januar 2007 17:44 skrev Martin Schlander:
Fredag 05 januar 2007 15:45 skrev Jan Kupec:
Last thing to add is that zypper is still in an early development stage and will improve.
Does rug have an equivalent to the "zypper sh" functionality? Maybe it's irrelevant because of the daemon, not sure, haven't used rug/zmd much.
I also believe that if you add repos with zypper you can assign an alias that applies to YaST2, don't think that works with rug - not 100% sure.
Thought of another thing. I guess zypper supports deltarpms, but rug doesn't, does it?
No, both support deltas. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
Fredag 05 januar 2007 15:45 skrev Jan Kupec:
Last thing to add is that zypper is still in an early development stage and will improve.
Does rug have an equivalent to the "zypper sh" functionality? Maybe it's irrelevant because of the daemon, not sure, haven't used rug/zmd much.
nope, it doesn't.
I also believe that if you add repos with zypper you can assign an alias that applies to YaST2, don't think that works with rug - not 100% sure.
Rug has this ability, although it's not mentioned in its help/manual. However, it syncs changes only if you specify '-type zypp' in 'sa' command, and it has no service-rename command.
But for me I have to say that I find working directly with libzypp is a very, very important feature that makes zypper a clear number one in my book. Saves synchronization, works around the unreliability of zmd etc.
I think it was a great idea to do zypper and I can't wait for it to mature more and be more polished.
thanks! jano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Dominique Leuenberger -
Jan Kupec -
Marcus Meissner -
Martin Schlander