[opensuse-factory] SPAM: YAST new icons

opensuse4u .

15 Oct 2006 15 Oct '06

11:15

Hello, Is it possible to use YAST KDE-like icons? The other day I upgraded to openSUSE 10.2 (i586) Alpha5plus and now I see GNOME-like (maybe from the Tango project?) icons on YAST. Greetings

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Bart Otten

15 Oct 15 Oct

12:20

Op zondag 15 oktober 2006 13:15, schreef opensuse4u .:

...

Hello,

Is it possible to use YAST KDE-like icons? The other day I upgraded to openSUSE 10.2 (i586) Alpha5plus and now I see GNOME-like (maybe from the Tango project?) icons on YAST.

Greetings

+1 Also in the installer in the screen of choices an Gnome-styled icon is used for KDE. That is not fair, KDE does use more and brighter colors and that may be shown. It did not look bad in 10.1 so why change it? Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style? BartOtten aka Azerion --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

12:40

* Bart Otten [10-15-06 08:21]:

...

Also in the installer in the screen of choices an Gnome-styled icon is used for KDE. That is not fair, KDE does use more and brighter colors and that may be shown. It did not look bad in 10.1 so why change it? Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?

Perhaps you should do some basic research before making an inaccurate statement as above, "Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?". You are just feeding the multi-headed dragon. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

opensuse4u .

12:49

I think that those icons come from the Tango Project. Correct me if I'm wrong. IMHO, a true GNOME and a true KDE icon in the installer looks much better, just the way it was. On 10/15/06, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Bart Otten [10-15-06 08:21]:

...
Also in the installer in the screen of choices an Gnome-styled icon is used for KDE. That is not fair, KDE does use more and brighter colors and that may be shown. It did not look bad in 10.1 so why change it? Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?

Perhaps you should do some basic research before making an inaccurate statement as above, "Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?".

You are just feeding the multi-headed dragon. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hugo Costelha

12:54

On Sunday 15 October 2006 13:40, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Bart Otten [10-15-06 08:21]:

...
Also in the installer in the screen of choices an Gnome-styled icon is used for KDE. That is not fair, KDE does use more and brighter colors and that may be shown. It did not look bad in 10.1 so why change it? Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?

Perhaps you should do some basic research before making an inaccurate statement as above, "Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?".

Hey, calm down people. I am sure that what people are traying to say here, is that the new icons on a KDE environment look tremendously out of place, and YAST looses all sense of integration. It kind of reminds the old days of OpenOffice, before the KDE integration work, when it seems a lot different. Hugo Costelha --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bart Otten

21:26

Op zondag 15 oktober 2006 14:40, schreef Patrick Shanahan:

...

* Bart Otten [10-15-06 08:21]:

...
Also in the installer in the screen of choices an Gnome-styled icon is used for KDE. That is not fair, KDE does use more and brighter colors and that may be shown. It did not look bad in 10.1 so why change it? Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?

Perhaps you should do some basic research before making an inaccurate statement as above, "Because SUSE is gonna be Gnome-style?".

You are just feeding the multi-headed dragon.

Say it isn't true.... openSUSE becomes Gnome minded (at Novell-request I am 90% sure) as we all can see using KDE. First there was the out of place updater-icon (still, we are waiting on KDE Updater), YaST and now also in the installer. I know KDE will stay in the distro and there will be worked on. But this becomes really annoying in KDE and I hope it is 'fixed' before Final. Bart Otten --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

andreas.hanke＠gmx-topmail.de

21:38

Hi,

...

Say it isn't true.... openSUSE becomes Gnome minded (at Novell-request I am 90% sure) as we all can see using KDE. First there was the out of place updater-icon (still, we are waiting on KDE Updater), YaST and now also in the installer. I know KDE will stay in the distro and there will be worked on. But this becomes really annoying in KDE and I hope it is 'fixed' before Final.

Bart Otten --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-- GMX DSL-Flatrate 0,- Euro* - Überall, wo DSL verfügbar ist! NEU: Jetzt bis zu 16.000 kBit/s! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

andreas.hanke＠gmx-topmail.de

21:50

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Hi,

...

Say it isn't true.... openSUSE becomes Gnome minded (at Novell-request I am 90% sure) as we all can see using KDE.

Do you really think so? Are you using the current Alphas? Did you compare both environments there?

...

First there was the out of place updater-icon (still, we are waiting on KDE Updater), YaST and now also in the installer.

Someone has to write these updaters, they are not just icons... Zen-Updater is not a GNOME application, while SuSEwatcher *was* a KDE application and the new updater for KDE *will be* a KDE application.

...

I know KDE will stay in the distro and there will be worked on.

Yes, as everyone can see by using the current Alphas and closely looking at the work being done.

...

But this becomes really annoying in KDE and I hope it is 'fixed' before Final.

Someone would have to create the icons in the first place. They don't create themselves. It seems that the previous icon theme is not complete any more because of new YaST modules being added over the time. You are willing to create matching icons? Please read: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=211348 There is a lot of exciting stuff being done specifically for KDE, and not just packaging, but actually also new applications. Just look at knetworkmanager and kerry and kickoff and the KDE updater, try to appreciate it a little bit and calm down with the YaST icons... These are just icons, on the other hand you get new applications. Andreas Hanke -- GMX DSL-Flatrate 0,- Euro* - Überall, wo DSL verfügbar ist! NEU: Jetzt bis zu 16.000 kBit/s! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

16 Oct 16 Oct

17:35

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de wrote:

...

Someone would have to create the icons in the first place. They don't create themselves. It seems that the previous icon theme is not complete any more because of new YaST modules being added over the time. You are willing to create matching icons?

Andreas, that is a silly and unnecessarily sarcastic question. Bart only pointed out that the current set of YaST icons is ugly and dull, just as I did on 10 Oct. No, I have no intention of creating a set of icons for SUSE, but when the current set (10.2a5) is a step backward from that of earlier alphas, reporting it is very reasonable.

...

Please read: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=211348

Great!

...

There is a lot of exciting stuff being done specifically for KDE, and not just packaging, but actually also new applications. Just look at knetworkmanager and kerry and kickoff and the KDE updater, try to appreciate it a little bit and calm down with the YaST icons... These are just icons, on the other hand you get new applications.

You're missing the point. YaST is perhaps one of the most visible applications - that KDE has other new applications to offer is utterly irrelevant, IMHO. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Hanke

19:14

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Per Jessen schrieb:

...

Andreas, that is a silly and unnecessarily sarcastic question. Bart only pointed out that the current set of YaST icons is ugly and dull, just as I did on 10 Oct.

It doesn't work that way. I seriously doubt that calling the icon theme ugly or silly or whatever gives you better icons. Try a wording like "inconsistent" or "out of place" or something like that.

...

No, I have no intention of creating a set of icons for SUSE, but when the current set (10.2a5) is a step backward from that of earlier alphas, reporting it is very reasonable.

But it isn't a fact that these icons are a step backward, it's an opinion. I just like to document that not all users are uncomfortable with these icons. I like them with one exception: The icon of the online_update module (well, it's the same icon as - you know what), but wouldn't call the entire work ugly or silly because of that. The proposal with a custom theme package is not intended to be sarcastic at all. Just look at the way the YaST icon theme is packaged and you'll see that there is an infrastructure to install multiple theme packages in parallel. What I'm trying to express is that the users are not entirely dependent on decisions made by SUSE or Novell. Most users are using packages from many different sources, these have been created by people who want to supplement the package base offered by the distribution. Being a little bit familiar with how this stuff like dropped/replaced packages is working during SUSE Alphas, I can say that things like this are _very_rarely_ being reverted, and encourage the most unsatisfied users to try a different way than requesting a revert of a switch whose reasons were documented in Bugzilla.

...

You're missing the point. YaST is perhaps one of the most visible applications - that KDE has other new applications to offer is utterly irrelevant, IMHO.

I sort of disagree (When using the system in a "normal" way - not Alpha-testing - I'm touching the desktop menu and the networking applet every day and YaST maybe once in a week), but hey, we're free to disagree. ;-) Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

20:36

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Andreas Hanke wrote:

...

Per Jessen schrieb:

...
Andreas, that is a silly and unnecessarily sarcastic question. Bart only pointed out that the current set of YaST icons is ugly and dull, just as I did on 10 Oct.

It doesn't work that way. I seriously doubt that calling the icon theme ugly or silly or whatever gives you better icons. Try a wording like "inconsistent" or "out of place" or something like that.

I believe that Novell would like to sell a product that is pleasing to the eye too. So when I call such a drastic change in icons "ugly", yes, I do believe it will work. I don't think they're inconsistent nor do I think they're out of place, I only think they're ugly and dull (in comparison to the previous set).

...

...
No, I have no intention of creating a set of icons for SUSE, but when the current set (10.2a5) is a step backward from that of earlier alphas, reporting it is very reasonable.

But it isn't a fact that these icons are a step backward, it's an opinion.

Of course. My opinion is that they are a step backward, and I have informed Novell that I think so. I wasn't the one who raised a bugreport, I only mentioned it here on this mailing-list.

...

The proposal with a custom theme package is not intended to be sarcastic at all. Just look at the way the YaST icon theme is packaged and you'll see that there is an infrastructure to install multiple theme packages in parallel.

Maybe so - nonetheless you suggested that a plain user of openSUSE would be likely to create a new set of icons - presumably when you're quite well aware that doing so requires significant graphical and artistical talent and effort. That is called sarcasm.

...

...
You're missing the point. YaST is perhaps one of the most visible applications - that KDE has other new applications to offer is utterly irrelevant, IMHO.

I sort of disagree (When using the system in a "normal" way - not Alpha-testing - I'm touching the desktop menu and the networking applet every day and YaST maybe once in a week), but hey, we're free to disagree. ;-)

Yeah, of course YaST is unlikely to be used a lot once you're up and running, that's very true. But your argument about some or other minor KDE apps was just as bad, I think. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Hanke

21:24

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Per Jessen schrieb:

...

I believe that Novell would like to sell a product that is pleasing to the eye too. So when I call such a drastic change in icons "ugly", yes, I do believe it will work. I don't think they're inconsistent nor do I think they're out of place, I only think they're ugly and dull (in comparison to the previous set).

OK, let's disagree then ;-) With many different bug reports in many different open source projects, I repeatedly made the experience that using vocabulary of the "ugly and dull" category is a very efficient way to get one's wishes addressed later and worse (or maybe even not at all!) instead of faster and better because it forces the one who made the decision into a position of defending himself instead of cooperating with you. But let's see.

...

Maybe so - nonetheless you suggested that a plain user of openSUSE would be likely to create a new set of icons - presumably when you're quite well aware that doing so requires significant graphical and artistical talent and effort. That is called sarcasm.

No, this is not sarcasm, this is just a problem description. The previous icon theme has been designed by an artist who is no longer designing YaST icons (that's what I understand, at least). Besides all "ugly and dull" categorizations, criticism needs to be constructive as well, and this is a problem because someone has to find and pay an artist who is able to create icons that match the previous theme in the first place. The other solution is working together with the artist who designed the new theme in order to make the new theme prettier and more acceptable for as many users as possible. But for that in order to happen, the criticism is (I'm really sorry to say that) far too hostile. Refusing to cooperate with a party that makes this sort of criticism is something that I would call legitimate.

...

Yeah, of course YaST is unlikely to be used a lot once you're up and running, that's very true. But your argument about some or other minor KDE apps was just as bad, I think.

It's not getting better. The integration work that has been put into these items isn't minor. I think that there is a general problem of underestimating other people's work and efforts, which is exactly what I call "an approach that won't work". Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bart Otten

22:35

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Op maandag 16 oktober 2006 23:24, schreef Andreas Hanke:

...

Per Jessen schrieb:

...
I believe that Novell would like to sell a product that is pleasing to the eye too. So when I call such a drastic change in icons "ugly", yes, I do believe it will work. I don't think they're inconsistent nor do I think they're out of place, I only think they're ugly and dull (in comparison to the previous set).

OK, let's disagree then ;-)

With many different bug reports in many different open source projects, I repeatedly made the experience that using vocabulary of the "ugly and dull" category is a very efficient way to get one's wishes addressed later and worse (or maybe even not at all!) instead of faster and better because it forces the one who made the decision into a position of defending himself instead of cooperating with you. But let's see.

That's what I try to tell but I am not an native English speaker. Inconsistent, that''s the word.

...

...
Maybe so - nonetheless you suggested that a plain user of openSUSE would be likely to create a new set of icons - presumably when you're quite well aware that doing so requires significant graphical and artistical talent and effort. That is called sarcasm.

No, this is not sarcasm, this is just a problem description. The previous icon theme has been designed by an artist who is no longer designing YaST icons (that's what I understand, at least). Besides all "ugly and dull" categorizations, criticism needs to be constructive as well, and this is a problem because someone has to find and pay an artist who is able to create icons that match the previous theme in the first place.

Maybe openSUSE shhould do a world wide call for artists? I bugreport ssometimes but I really can't do anything about it myself. I can not code and I do not have time to learn. However, it's my specialism to look like 'Average Joe' and report with that in mind. Let me say it this way: Average Joe will think the icons are ugly in KDE cause they are different from all the other. Do not forget: how many new items appeared in YaST and how many Crystal-icons are there? I think it is not so hard to find some icon for the new entries. I want to search for it but until now I do not get much response at graphical things...that makes we wonder if I want to spend time with it while bugreporting is something they WILL do anyting about. Example: - new AppArmor-icon for Yast, cause the current is inconsistent. It is just a little bit different and with my noob-skills I spend long time to optimize so it would look better. No response (guess it is still in bugzilla...for month) - I wanted to talk about a new graphical installation and made some mockups. Andreas openSUSE (can get his name, tired) was nice and connected me to some graphical artists from Novell/openSUSE. Spend some time to mockup my ideas but......never heard from them....not even comments on my mockups. BTW> Thanks to Anderas, he was really interested or did like he was. Don't care which from the two, as long as I feel they look at my work. (ps. There is now some changes in installer with a 'background', maybe they picked up some ideas maybe they allready had the idea...who knows.......I don't) - I reported about the progress-bars in Yast and how I think it can be better. In progress - Complained about nvidia-drivers for legacy-cards (Fixed! Awsome nvidia!) - 100 more 'system' things that is worked on or have allready been fixed. What would you choose to report and use your time for? Would centainly not complain about openSUSE system-maintainers and devvers...But have my doubts about the graphic artists and how they deal with suggestions (if you guys have comment, flame me I can have it...) Maybe....it would be nice if all developers would just describe what they did in one week. Not in many words, just some keywords. Cause I cannot think of an graphic artist that spends 4 month on a refreshment of openSUSE to the next edition

...

The other solution is working together with the artist who designed the new theme in order to make the new theme prettier and more acceptable for as many users as possible. But for that in order to happen, the criticism is (I'm really sorry to say that) far too hostile. Refusing to cooperate with a party that makes this sort of criticism is something that I would call legitimate.

See above.

...

...
Yeah, of course YaST is unlikely to be used a lot once you're up and running, that's very true. But your argument about some or other minor KDE apps was just as bad, I think.

It's not getting better. The integration work that has been put into these items isn't minor. I think that there is a general problem of underestimating other people's work and efforts, which is exactly what I call "an approach that won't work".

I think we cannot even image the work that is done by so many. And I think we should try to 'hint' people before talk to them and before any public discussion. However, I am not payed by Novell, I have to work my ass of for my bread and house, I care about openSUSE and what it will look like in the eyes of noob-users, I discussion on this list while I don't have time for it but I think it has to be discussed, I report bugs and even try to understand them, and I got a 10.1-box for that! Thats great. Really, can't use a smile otherwise people will see that the text above will end happy before the read it. openSUSE is great, let's make it even better. Bart Otten --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dan Winship

23:13

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Andreas Hanke wrote:

...

No, this is not sarcasm, this is just a problem description. The previous icon theme has been designed by an artist who is no longer designing YaST icons (that's what I understand, at least). Besides all "ugly and dull" categorizations, criticism needs to be constructive as well, and this is a problem because someone has to find and pay an artist who is able to create icons that match the previous theme in the first place.

The other solution is working together with the artist who designed the new theme in order to make the new theme prettier and more acceptable for as many users as possible.

People might be interested in this link from the GNOME Summit last weekend: http://live.gnome.org/AwesomeArtShit#head-662dcce78742355371d25d70c019296695... (if that fragment id breaks, search for "svg crack" on the page). Some of the artists were playing around with the idea of using CSS stylesheets to generate multiple different themes (eg, tango, bluecurve, crystal, high-contrast-accessible, etc) from the same base SVG drawings. I'm not sure if anyone is actively working on now though. But this might also be a simple way for someone with a little graphics clue to generate a set of more-KDE-looking icons from the existing Tango ones. -- Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rafa Grimán

17 Oct 17 Oct

12:13

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

El Lunes, 16 de Octubre de 2006 19:35, Per Jessen escribió:

...

andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de wrote:

...
Someone would have to create the icons in the first place. They don't create themselves. It seems that the previous icon theme is not complete any more because of new YaST modules being added over the time. You are willing to create matching icons?

Andreas, that is a silly and unnecessarily sarcastic question. Bart only pointed out that the current set of YaST icons is ugly and dull, just as I did on 10 Oct. No, I have no intention of creating a set of icons for SUSE, but when the current set (10.2a5) is a step backward from that of earlier alphas, reporting it is very reasonable.

...
Please read: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=211348

Great!

...
There is a lot of exciting stuff being done specifically for KDE, and not just packaging, but actually also new applications. Just look at knetworkmanager and kerry and kickoff and the KDE updater, try to appreciate it a little bit and calm down with the YaST icons... These are just icons, on the other hand you get new applications.

You're missing the point. YaST is perhaps one of the most visible applications - that KDE has other new applications to offer is utterly irrelevant, IMHO.

I DO agree that new apps are very interesting, but ... YaST is one of the things that people really like. And it's one of the biggest features SUSE has. If you give people ugly and dull icons for YaST ... IMHO it's not going to be very good marketing. Previous icons were much more colorful, nicer, ... Now it's dull and gray :( Yes, I know, icon colors don't determine whether an app is good or not. But if the app is eyecandy ... heck, you've won quite a bunch. Just look at MS, it doesn't work but it's nice so people like it ;) Just MHO Rafa -- 50% of all statistics are inaccurate. OpenWengo: rgriman --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bart Otten

16 Oct 16 Oct

20:31

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Op zondag 15 oktober 2006 23:50, schreef andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de:

...

Hi,

...
Say it isn't true.... openSUSE becomes Gnome minded (at Novell-request I am 90% sure) as we all can see using KDE.

Do you really think so?

Are you using the current Alphas? Did you compare both environments there?

I run factory and used the Alpha 5 installer...Do not have to compare but can see the icons popping up in KDE.

...

...
First there was the out of place updater-icon (still, we are waiting on KDE Updater), YaST and now also in the installer.

Someone has to write these updaters, they are not just icons...

Zen-Updater is not a GNOME application, while SuSEwatcher *was* a KDE application and the new updater for KDE *will be* a KDE application.

However the updater icon used in KDE was from the Gnome look. There were many complaining when devving 10.1 allready.

...

...
I know KDE will stay in the distro and there will be worked on.

Yes, as everyone can see by using the current Alphas and closely looking at the work being done.

...
But this becomes really annoying in KDE and I hope it is 'fixed' before Final.

Someone would have to create the icons in the first place. They don't create themselves. It seems that the previous icon theme is not complete any more because of new YaST modules being added over the time. You are willing to create matching icons?

I want that the old one are used instead of all the Novell-brand ones that comes from SLED.... playing with colors inside Gimp can turn Gnome-styles into like-KDE-styled.. However I allready made an new icon for AppArmor cause it is not sharp aan looks (or looked) out of order in 10.1...it never went into while it IS/WAS better.....

...

Please read:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=211348

There is a lot of exciting stuff being done specifically for KDE, and not just packaging, but actually also new applications. Just look at knetworkmanager and kerry and kickoff and the KDE updater, try to appreciate it a little bit and calm down with the YaST icons... These are just icons, on the other hand you get new applications.

Andreas Hanke

I am calm, but is is annoying. I am not gonna get mad about it..... I see some cewl KDE-things happening (Kickoff is going to be cool (is allready)). But those icons are slipping into KDE. They are just misplaced. However I would still recommend openSUSE 10.2 to friend cause even ZEN seems to get working :D, Kickoff, bit install-refreshment, patterns and so on. openSUSE still rocks, but would be rocking even more when KDE wouuld use only KDE-styled icons ;-) Azerion --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Hanke

20:53

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Bart Otten schrieb:

...

However I allready made an new icon for AppArmor cause it is not sharp aan looks (or looked) out of order in 10.1...

The AppArmor icons look a little bit out of place because they are not from the same origin as the yast2-theme-{SuSELinux,openSUSE} package. It has nothing to do with the theme switch in Factory, actually the AppArmor icons are the only ones which have _not_ changed. Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bart Otten

22:48

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Op maandag 16 oktober 2006 22:53, schreef Andreas Hanke:

...

Bart Otten schrieb:

...
However I allready made an new icon for AppArmor cause it is not sharp aan looks (or looked) out of order in 10.1...

The AppArmor icons look a little bit out of place because they are not from the same origin as the yast2-theme-{SuSELinux,openSUSE} package. It has nothing to do with the theme switch in Factory, actually the AppArmor icons are the only ones which have _not_ changed.

I know that does not have to do with the recently changes. But I wanted to show that I try to help by uploading my own one, that looked better, and that I was disappointed for not getting ANY comments on that matter. It did not show up and it looks still out of place....... I am not the type that wants to scream about how weird things are before I have checked if I can help. ZEN-updater was...you know. However, I spend time testing the pre-updates and blocked one cause of serious trouble (think Ubuntu-updates style). Not saying that caUSE i WANT TO HEAR "YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOO GOOD" CAUSE i KNOW THERE ARE A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAT SPEND MUCH MORE TIME (caps, srry) for an good new version. But until now the openSUSE artists did not give me a good feeling (or an reply) and I gave up trying to change the graphic-world of SUSE. I am really sorry to say that :-( Bart Otten --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bart Otten

23:07

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Op maandag 16 oktober 2006 22:53, schreef Andreas Hanke:

...

Bart Otten schrieb:

...
However I allready made an new icon for AppArmor cause it is not sharp aan looks (or looked) out of order in 10.1...

The AppArmor icons look a little bit out of place because they are not from the same origin as the yast2-theme-{SuSELinux,openSUSE} package. It has nothing to do with the theme switch in Factory, actually the AppArmor icons are the only ones which have _not_ changed.

/me is NOT in happy mode anymore. Please all KDE-users save openSUSE from the claw of Novell (or anybody that forces Gnome into KDE) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=211348 Bart Otten --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

17 Oct 17 Oct

11:54

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

I've backed up my 10.1 icons and will use the 10.1 theme on 10.2 for sure. Should one or two icons for new modules look out of place I'd prefer that over _all_ the icons being badly out of place. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

13:29

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Martin Schlander writes:

...

I've backed up my 10.1 icons and will use the 10.1 theme on 10.2 for sure.

I'm looking into providing a yast2-theme-traditional with all those icons in it.

...

Should one or two icons for new modules look out of place I'd prefer that over _all_ the icons being badly out of place.

Perhaps we can find people to develop new icons... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Marcel Hilzinger

12:09

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Am Sonntag, 15. Oktober 2006 23:50 schrieb andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de:

...

Hi,

...
Say it isn't true.... openSUSE becomes Gnome minded (at Novell-request I am 90% sure) as we all can see using KDE.

Do you really think so?

Are you using the current Alphas? Did you compare both environments there? Yes, I did. And I really do not care about those ugly tango icons (yes, they are ugly within Qt-YaST).

But... Each step Novell makes in the direction of Gnomifying the Suse desktop is (at least by the Suse-KDE-community) considered as going on killing KDE. Work at Novell for KDE is (by the community) not seen as an extra work but a must for Novell to keep it's face. So Novell is not doing a "good job" developing KDE apps, but it's doing "its job". Many of us know, that Novell will drop KDE as soon as it can without loosing face. It's just a matter of time. And signs like this decision make even more people belive, that the time is near... So if you want them, not to belive, that Novell will drop KDE, please do not make such bull****-decisions in the future. OK. Novell decides to change the YaST icon theme to tango icons to avoid duplicated work. But why doesn't Novell change then the whole KDE icon theme to tango? If I had no money to give to designers, I would concentrate on one icon theme at all, and not only for YaST... So please tell us, when step 2 will be done. And if Novell still wants to keep a designer for KDE artwork, why can't he do some icons for YaST. If Novell has no designer: why didn't Novell ask the community for help creating some KDE-style icons for YaST??? Step 3: If I had no money to give to developers, I would concentrate on one desktop and not create different GUIs for the same application. So please tell us, when step 3 will be done so we have time to switch to Kubuntu and help them to become #1 for KDE (a goal defined by Canonical, not by me) as well. Thanks for your wise decisions to be carefull with Novells budget, Marcel Hilzinger -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Hanke

12:38

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Marcel Hilzinger schrieb:

...

Each step Novell makes in the direction of Gnomifying the Suse desktop is (at least by the Suse-KDE-community) considered as going on killing KDE.

Ah, I see. Developing new applications for KDE, submitting it to KDE SVN and contributing to KDE upstream development in general is a measure of killing KDE. Makes sense.

...

Many of us know, that Novell will drop KDE as soon as it can without loosing face.

I wonder where you know that from.

...

It's just a matter of time. And signs like this decision make even more people belive, that the time is near... So if you want them, not to belive, that Novell will drop KDE, please do not make such bull****-decisions in the future.

If you really take something about "signs", then try to control your phantasy and read the [opensuse-commit] mailing list. During the last days, a new setuid binary has been added to the distribution. I know it because I'm reading the [opensuse-commit] mailing list. Do you know what that means? And do you know why it has been done even though it is per se a really bad thing? Simple answer: In order to give you a KDE updater applet. But you don't seem to be interested in it at all, you're just spreading rumours.

...

So please tell us, when step 3 will be done so we have time to switch to Kubuntu and help them to become #1 for KDE (a goal defined by Canonical, not by me) as well.

Try to learn the difference between a distributor and an innovator. Canonical, the "#1 for KDE", did not feel the need to create an acceptable KDE frontend for the NetworkManager daemon. Novell did, and Novell paid the bill because it has been created by a paid employee. Canonical compiles and distributes it. But no, you prefer spreading questionable rumours instead of looking at the actual work being done. Because of an icon theme. It's _so_ unfair! But if you really think that it's a good idea, support a pure distributor, you will probably not even notice where the innovations actually come from... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Marcel Hilzinger

13:50

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Am Dienstag, 17. Oktober 2006 14:38 schrieb Andreas Hanke:

...

Marcel Hilzinger schrieb:

...
Each step Novell makes in the direction of Gnomifying the Suse desktop is (at least by the Suse-KDE-community) considered as going on killing KDE.

Ah, I see. Developing new applications for KDE, submitting it to KDE SVN and contributing to KDE upstream development in general is a measure of killing KDE. Makes sense.

...
Many of us know, that Novell will drop KDE as soon as it can without loosing face.

I wonder where you know that from. 1+1=2

...

...
It's just a matter of time. And signs like this decision make even more people belive, that the time is near... So if you want them, not to belive, that Novell will drop KDE, please do not make such bull****-decisions in the future.

If you really take something about "signs", then try to control your phantasy and read the [opensuse-commit] mailing list.

I do -- as good as I can. I also have the KDE Updater installed for quite a long time. I just wondered, why its so hard to have a KDE- and a Gnome-theme for YaST and why Novell does not ask the community to help if they cannot afford it. But it seems that Andreas Jäger has the seen the problems and will provide a solution. Thanks aj. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

14:28

New subject: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons

Tirsdag 17 oktober 2006 14:09 skrev Marcel Hilzinger:

...

Many of us know, that Novell will drop KDE as soon as it can without loosing face.

I think many of them _would_, cuz they are either deeply involved with GNOME or are shortsighted suits who only understand costs and don't understand the value of diversity for the Linux platform - which should be viewed as a definite competive edge over Windows.. But the scenario of dropping KDE without losing face never can nor will happen, and they know that too.. and not only losing face, losing most of the people who test, promote and do free support for users. Don't think they'd be that stupid. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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participants (12)

Andreas Hanke
Andreas Jaeger
andreas.hanke＠gmx-topmail.de
Bart Otten
Dan Winship
Hugo Costelha
Marcel Hilzinger
Martin Schlander
opensuse4u .
Patrick Shanahan
Per Jessen
Rafa Grimán