On 10/11/09 11:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Monday, 2009-11-09 at 10:51 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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On Sunday 08 November 2009 07:57:01 Basil Chupin wrote:

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Thanks for this Andreas, but then the puzzlement deepens because in 11.1 the pae kernel was installed on my computer. See the attached menu.lst.

nimrodel:~ # uname -a Linux nimrodel 2.6.25.20-0.5-pae #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

Under oS 11.0

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I suggest to open a bugreport to get this resolved, I'm surprised as well but don't know everything ;).

If you do (BC), tell me (us) the number.

Carlos, see my response to Andreas, posted a few minutes ago. Looking in the menuconfig I found that the default kernel for 11.2 does support pae. I know that you keep an extensive archive of posts going back to when Adam was a boy :-) , so if you can remember and can find the URL about how to fiddle the "oomph" the kernel I mention in my post then please let me know.

I intend to install also the kernel-desktop, and see what happens, when time permits. Next weekend, hopefully.

I may do this in the next day or so. If I do, I 'll let you know the result. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 10/11/09 17:44, Space Case wrote:

On Nov 10, 3:29pm, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Carlos, see my response to Andreas, posted a few minutes ago. I know that you keep an extensive archive of posts going back to when Adam was a boy :-) , so if you can remember and can find the URL about how to fiddle the "oomph" the kernel I mention in my post then please let me know.

openFate 305694

Thanks for this but, no, this is not the reference I am looking for. This one is about a bug, but the one I want actually gave instructions about what to alter in the parameters for the kernel before compiling it to give, for example, Timer Frequency of 1000Hz instead of the default of (?)250Hz. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/11/09 06:46, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 18:37 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Thanks for this but, no, this is not the reference I am looking for. This one is about a bug, but the one I want actually gave instructions about what to alter in the parameters for the kernel before compiling it to give, for example, Timer Frequency of 1000Hz instead of the default of (?)250Hz.

Ah, that's one is easy, I don't need my archive ;-)

CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set CONFIG_HZ_250=y # CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set # CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set

at least in the sources of 11.0, I don't have installed those of 11.2 (to reduce download time during zypper dups)

(I did a grep for "time", then "250", then "CONFIG_HZ_" in the linux/.config file to find it. As I say, easy ;-) )

[...]

Ugh. I'm attempting a zypper up on rc.2 and I'm getting multiple download errors:

Failed to download SOMETHINGi586.rpm from http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ Abort, retry, ignore? [a/r/i/?] (a): r

I have to do an "up", then "dup", then install the extra kernel, in preparation for testing the other type of kernel. But with those multiple retries it is going to fail overnight.

OK, I just installed 11.2 RC2 on another set of HDs (and then upgraded to 11.2 GM using zypper dup). Everything works fine. During the installation 11.2 determined that I needed the DEFAULT kernel which - as we have been discussing - I wasn't going to have a bar of :-) so using the Software option during the installation I deselected kernel-default and chose kernel-desktop. (Also added kernel-desktop source and devel - because I always compile my own nVidia driver). All works perfectly - and the Timer Frequency is set to 1000hz in this kernel. The first thing I noticed is that the quality of the TV picture improved (I watch TV on my computer) - no 'streaking' or 'stuttering' on some HD channels. I am writing this post back on my "main" computer which has the default kernel installed but I will be replacing it with the desktop version later tonight. BTW, zypper, when upgrading the RC2 to GM, automatically restarted the downloads (because I lost connection a number of times - happens when there are thunderstorms in the vicinity :-( ). FYI. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/11/2009 01:08 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

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The first thing I noticed is that the quality of the TV picture improved (I watch TV on my computer) - no 'streaking' or 'stuttering' on some HD channels.

This is encouraging. However, are you using 64bit or 32bit version? I've always noticed stuttering watching flash on my 64bit system under 11.0 and I have the default kernel installed(which would make sense since I'm using 64bit and you don't use PAE when you are running in 64bit mode - actually, not sure why the PAE is even offered). I'm

What do you mean here WRT "not sure why the PAE is even offered" ? -Jeff

debating upgrading this one to 11.2(except for KDE4 - still don't really care for it - have it on my son's AthlonXP 3200+ and it's still so much differenct from KDE3).

-- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 09/11/11 1:31 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

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What do you mean here WRT "not sure why the PAE is even offered" ?

Because PAE is irrellavent in 64bit long mode. PAE only provides pointers for 36bit memory addressing. x64 chips have 40+ bit memory addressing and 64bit pointers and registers.

So, why is there a seperate PAE kernel when it's not needed?

AFIK, there is no 64-bit kernel offering with PAE. The only PAE kernel offered is on 32-bit. Dean -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

There isn't a kernel-pae for x86_64.

From 11.0/x64

zypper se kernel Reading installed packages... S | Name | Summary | Type --+-----------------------+-----------------------------------------+----------- i | devel_kernel | Linux Kernel Development | pattern | devel_kernel-32bit | devel_kernel-32bit | pattern i | kernel | Linux Kernel update | patch | kernel-coverage | kernel coverage imageing, galaxy poster | package | kernel-debug | A Debug Version of the Kernel | package i | kernel-default | The Standard Kernel for both Uniproce-> | package | kernel-docs | Kernel Documentation | package | kernel-kdump | kernel for kdump | srcpackage | kernel-pae | Kernel with PAE Support | package | kernel-ppc64 | Kernel for ppc64 Systems | srcpackage | kernel-ps3 | kernel for ps3 bootloader | srcpackage | kernel-rt | The Realtime Linux Kernel | package | kernel-rt_debug | A Debug Version of the Kernel | package i | kernel-source | The Linux Kernel Sources | package | kernel-syms | Kernel Symbol Versions (modversions) | package | kernel-vanilla | The Standard Kernel - without any SUS-> | package i | kernel-xen | The Xen Kernel | package | kerneloops | Tool to collect kernel oopses and sub-> | package | kerneloops | fix for kerneloops init script | patch | kerneloops-applet | Tool to collect kernel oopses and sub-> | package i | linux-kernel-headers | Linux Kernel Headers | package | linux-kernel-nutshell | Linux Kernel In A Nutshell Book | package | lirc-kernel | LIRC kernel modules | srcpackage i | nfs-kernel-server | Support Utilities for Kernel nfsd | package So, my question is why is it listed? In YaST/Software Management, it's the only 32bit kernel listed. The other kernels like ppc64, ps3 aren't listed in Software Management. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Dean Hilkewich wrote:

Because it is a compatible architecture type to the processor.  zypp won't list just the native architecture.  What if for example, such as flash, where there is only one package for that is only a 32-bit build for or if you want for example to run a 32-bit version of a package?  If you did try to change from the 64-bit kernel to a 32-bit I do believe that it will warn you that it is not compatible with the current install.

Seeing as how this is 11.0, I can't comment on 11.2 because I only have it installed on a 32bit proc ATM. However, if it is listing compatible kernels, then why did it also list the ppc64 and ps3 kernels(which would also be 64bit but totally incompatible with x64)? That doesn't make sense either. Now, Software Management didn't show those 2 but did show the pae kernel. Weird -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

Is there a way to mark the 32-bit kernel incompatible with x86_64? That would kill off that class of bugs we see occasionally where a 32-bit kernel is accidentally installed on a 64-bit system.

It is already marked as such: %ifarch %ix86 Conflicts: libc.so.6()(64bit) %endif Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dne 11.11.2009 23:19, Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

On 11/11/2009 04:32 PM, Michal Marek wrote:

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Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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Is there a way to mark the 32-bit kernel incompatible with x86_64? That would kill off that class of bugs we see occasionally where a 32-bit kernel is accidentally installed on a 64-bit system.

It is already marked as such:

%ifarch %ix86 Conflicts: libc.so.6()(64bit) %endif

Ah ok. So if someone where to attempt to install it, it would want to uninstall pretty much the entire system in favor of a 32-bit system. I wonder if there's a stronger way to say "no, don't ever install this" to zypper and friends.

sepie:~ # uname -m x86_64 sepie:~ # LANG=en_US.UTF-8 zypper in kernel-pae Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... Problem: kernel-pae-2.6.32-1.1.i586 conflicts with libc.so.6()(64bit) provided by glibc-2.10.1-11.5.x86_64 Solution 1: Following actions will be done: install glibc-2.10.1-11.5.i686 despite the inferior architecture install mkinitrd-2.5.10-6.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install grep-2.5.4-3.8.i586 despite the inferior architecture install gzip-1.3.12-101.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture install module-init-tools-3.11.1-1.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install perl-base-5.10.1-2.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install sed-4.1.5-129.9.i586 despite the inferior architecture install info-4.13a-2.3.i586 despite the inferior architecture install libzio-0.99-2.13.i586 despite the inferior architecture install sysvinit-2.86-214.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install udev-146-2.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install insserv-1.13.0-1.3.i586 despite the inferior architecture install pwdutils-3.2.5-1.6.i586 despite the inferior architecture install pam-modules-11.2-3.6.i586 despite the inferior architecture install util-linux-2.16-7.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install permissions-2009.10.07.1653-1.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install rpm-4.7.1-8.8.i586 despite the inferior architecture install gawk-3.1.6-27.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install coreutils-7.1-4.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install bash-4.0-19.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture install file-5.03-4.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install elfutils-0.142-4.7.i586 despite the inferior architecture install dhcpcd-3.2.3-49.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install net-tools-1.60-733.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install sysconfig-0.72.6-1.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install hal-0.5.13-5.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install iproute2-2.6.29.1-7.3.i586 despite the inferior architecture install procps-3.2.8-5.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install cpio-2.10-3.6.i586 despite the inferior architecture install zlib-1.2.3-139.15.i586 despite the inferior architecture install fillup-1.42-246.3.i586 despite the inferior architecture install diffutils-2.8.7-144.51.i586 despite the inferior architecture install dbus-1-1.2.16-4.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install aaa_base-11.2-46.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install login-3.40-1.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture install mingetty-1.0.7s-92.35.i586 despite the inferior architecture install ncurses-utils-5.6-90.94.i586 despite the inferior architecture install psmisc-22.7-7.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install findutils-4.4.0-45.6.i586 despite the inferior architecture install pm-utils-0.99.4.20071229-17.5.i586 despite the inferior architecture install setserial-2.17-716.61.i586 despite the inferior architecture install dbus-1-glib-0.80-4.2.i586 despite the inferior architecture install PolicyKit-0.9-15.10.i586 despite the inferior architecture install ConsoleKit-0.3.1-1.8.i586 despite the inferior architecture install libpolkit0-0.94-2.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture install libeggdbus-1-0-0.5-3.1.i586 despite the inferior architecture install pam-config-0.72-1.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture install pam-1.1.0-2.10.i586 despite the inferior architecture install polkit-0.94-2.4.i586 despite the inferior architecture Solution 2: do not ask to install a solvable providing kernel-pae Choose from above solutions by number or cancel [1/2/c] (c): Although you never know with some users, I think most of them will correctly interpret the above as "DO NOT EVEN THINK OF CHOOSING 1!" :). I don't know of a better way unfortunately. Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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Dne 11.11.2009 23:19, Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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On 11/11/2009 04:32 PM, Michal Marek wrote:

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Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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Is there a way to mark the 32-bit kernel incompatible with x86_64? That would kill off that class of bugs we see occasionally where a 32-bit kernel is accidentally installed on a 64-bit system. ... Sorry, I should've clarified. I essentially want to mark it Taboo so

On 11/12/2009 04:09 AM, Michal Marek wrote: that it doesn't show up in zypper search.

Ah, I see. I'm not aware of a way to do this, sorry. Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rob OpenSuSE napsal(a):

2009/11/13 Michal Marek :

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Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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Dne 11.11.2009 23:19, Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):

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On 11/11/2009 04:32 PM, Michal Marek wrote:

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Jeff Mahoney napsal(a): > Is there a way to mark the 32-bit kernel incompatible with x86_64? That would kill > off that class of bugs we see occasionally where a 32-bit kernel is accidentally > installed on a 64-bit system. ... Sorry, I should've clarified. I essentially want to mark it Taboo so

On 11/12/2009 04:09 AM, Michal Marek wrote: that it doesn't show up in zypper search. Ah, I see. I'm not aware of a way to do this, sorry.

Could a dummy dependancy be used in 11.3, the kernel in x86_64 might rely on a package that's only distributed in x86_64. Or would 32 bit risk installing x86_64 arch packages to?

This is already solved, the 32bit kernels conflict with 64bit glibc, so you won't be able to install them. However, zypper search doesn't do any dependency calculation, so a search for kernel will also display the 32bit kernel-pae. Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rob OpenSuSE napsal(a):

Yes, but if the x86_64 kernel requires a package, like the 64 bit ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ glibc; and the 64 bit glibc requires something only the x86_64 kernels provide, then won't they become uninstallable for 32 bit versions?

It's Jeff's problem with "kill off that class of bugs we see occasionally where a 32-bit kernel is accidentally installed on a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 64-bit system".

You are mixing up multiple things: installing 32bit kernel on a 64bit system - solved by the Conflicts: tag installing 64bit kernel on a 32bit system - zypp and rpm don't allow this afaik, although it should work nowadays kernel-pae showing up in zypper search output - no solution for that so far. Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

Don't let kde4 worry you. You'll get used to it in minutes.

Nope. Still haven't gotten used ot it. Too much going on.

The only thing is *not* to Enable all the desktop effects and save lots of cpu cycles in not running all the eye-candy.

Yeah, I requested that KPersonalizer get ported to make that easy, but didn't happen yet.

Also, download and compile the nVidia driver from nVidia. Makes a BIG difference. The "default" excuse for an nvidia driver installed by 11.2 only gave me ~136fps (using glxgears), the compiled driver (190.42) gives me ~3660fps.

I haven't installed the nVidia driver on his machine yet. Was hoping that the repo would be up but haven't seen it yet(haven't looked today tho). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/11/2009 09:22 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 12/11/09 13:08, Larry Stotler wrote:

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On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Don't let kde4 worry you. You'll get used to it in minutes.

Nope. Still haven't gotten used ot it. Too much going on.

Not really. To me kde4 is looking just like kde3 did - the only think missing is the ability to have different wallpapers on each separate desktop. I know that this can be done thru Activities, but this is not for me and I am happy with what I see.

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The only thing is *not* to Enable all the desktop effects and save lots of cpu cycles in not running all the eye-candy.

Yeah, I requested that KPersonalizer get ported to make that easy, but didn't happen yet.

Oh, is there some sort of Personalizer which may need tweeking? I just did not tick the Enable box in Desktop settings.

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Also, download and compile the nVidia driver from nVidia. Makes a BIG difference. The "default" excuse for an nvidia driver installed by 11.2 only gave me ~136fps (using glxgears), the compiled driver (190.42) gives me ~3660fps.

I haven't installed the nVidia driver on his machine yet. Was hoping that the repo would be up but haven't seen it yet(haven't looked today tho).

Now, am I mistaken and did not understand what I think I may have read, but I thought that nVidia driver is no longer available as part of zypper or YaST because nvidia decided that it is a proprietary driver and will not make it available except thru their own site?

I think that is in error.....it's supposed to be available, although I haven't seen it yet and need to! ;) Fred -- Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, so I have more reliable. I use Linux! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/12/2009 12:26 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 12/11/09 13:50, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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On 11/11/2009 09:22 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

[pruned]

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Now, am I mistaken and did not understand what I think I may have read, but I thought that nVidia driver is no longer available as part of zypper or YaST because nvidia decided that it is a proprietary driver and will not make it available except thru their own site?

I think that is in error.....it's supposed to be available, although I haven't seen it yet and need to! ;)

Ah, OK. But in any case it doesn't affect me as I always compile the driver myself after I download it from the nVidia site.

Yes.....I know.....you enjoy it. ;) Fred -- Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, so I have more reliable. I use Linux! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

2009/11/12 Basil Chupin :

On 12/11/09 17:19, Fred A. Miller wrote:

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On 11/12/2009 12:26 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Ah, OK.  But in any case it doesn't affect me as I always compile the driver myself after I download it from the nVidia site.

Yes.....I know.....you enjoy it. ;)

YES! I *do*!

It gives me the feeling of *power*.

And gives me the feeling that *I* am in control!

It's just an inteface stub you're compiling, a kind of a shim for Nvidia's binary blob driver to fit in with the kernel & limit the impact of Linux changes to their codebase. To really have control you need to run untainted kernel with FOSS drivers. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 12 November 2009 05:26:24 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

To really have control you need to run untainted kernel with FOSS drivers.

Sincerely Rob, control over what ? Like I understand kernel, all applications on top of it and I can follow what computer does in real time. That would be the only known way to assure real control, all other opinions what presents real control over machine processes are empty talk. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 09/11/09 20:51, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

On Sunday 08 November 2009 07:57:01 Basil Chupin wrote:

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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Kernel clarification Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:37:08 +1100 From: Basil Chupin To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org

On 08/11/09 06:54, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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On Saturday 07 November 2009 03:06:19 Basil Chupin wrote:

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Forgot to mention: the CPU is AMD XP 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, 2x 500GB HDs,

The desktop kernel needs AFAIR PAE support, I'm not sure your CPU has it - that might be the reason for the installation of the default one.

In general: kernel-desktop runs on "newer" hardware only, kernel-default runs also on some older,

Andreas

Thanks for this Andreas, but then the puzzlement deepens because in 11.1 the pae kernel was installed on my computer. See the attached menu.lst.

I suggest to open a bugreport to get this resolved, I'm surprised as well but don't know everything ;).

See my other response to you a short time ago (stating that my Athlon DOES support pae). Before submitting any bug reports I want to get some facts straight, and what I suspect is occurring is that whoever put together the script for the 11.2 installer is as confused about what kernel does what and which features it's supposed to support. (Which is why someone, ?Carlos, asked for a listing of what each type of kernel is supposed to do.) For example, I just looked at menuconfig for the default kernel now installed with 11.2 on my computer. The first thing I saw was that pae *was* supported by the default kernel. (However, the kernel has the Pentium Classic as the cpu when it was compiled.) Having a kernel-pae then becomes a rather redundant kernel because kernel-default also supports pae. Obviously there must be other differences - and this is why a summary of what each kernel is supposed to do has to be provided. One other thing I still want to check and that is does the default kernel have the Time Frequency set to 1000Hz or is that really the province of kernel-desktop? I cannot check this because I forgot where this parameter is located, and I cannot find the detailed instructions I printed out on how to "fiddle" with the kernel to give it a bit of "oomph". The instructions were posted by someone in opensuse-help (I think) some months ago in the form of an URL where the details were to be found. If anyone remembers this URL could you please let me know? (BTW, it was using these instructions when I mentioned, in an earlier message [and see below], that I fiddled with the kernel some months ago.) So, I think that at this point what is required is a summary of what each kernel does/doesn't do. This is the starting point. Not having such a list I feel will continue to lead to misunderstandings and unnecessary debate.

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I don't have earlier versions of oS installed on HDs so cannot check but I seem to recall the the pae kernel was also installed by at least one other earlier version of oS.

I also remember "fiddling" with a copy of the kernel in 11.1 to compile my own which had the (?some of the) qualities now in the desktop kernel eg,the Timer Frequency set to 1000Hz.

Am I wrong or isn't it the situation that if the kernel is compiled with parameters selected but which, in fact, are not available in the CPU then the kernel still does its job and uses those which ARE available? That is, it doesn't have a hernia, throw up its hands and runs off screaming into the distance :-) .

This works in some cases but not everywhere AFAIK,

Andreas

BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 10/11/09 03:35, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

On 11/08/2009 01:57 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Kernel clarification Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:37:08 +1100 From: Basil Chupin To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org

On 08/11/09 06:54, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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On Saturday 07 November 2009 03:06:19 Basil Chupin wrote:

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Forgot to mention: the CPU is AMD XP 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, 2x 500GB HDs,

The desktop kernel needs AFAIR PAE support, I'm not sure your CPU has it - that might be the reason for the installation of the default one.

In general: kernel-desktop runs on "newer" hardware only, kernel-default runs also on some older,

Andreas

Thanks for this Andreas, but then the puzzlement deepens because in 11.1 the pae kernel was installed on my computer. See the attached menu.lst.

I don't have earlier versions of oS installed on HDs so cannot check but I seem to recall the the pae kernel was also installed by at least one other earlier version of oS.

I also remember "fiddling" with a copy of the kernel in 11.1 to compile my own which had the (?some of the) qualities now in the desktop kernel eg,the Timer Frequency set to 1000Hz.

Am I wrong or isn't it the situation that if the kernel is compiled with parameters selected but which, in fact, are not available in the CPU then the kernel still does its job and uses those which ARE available? That is, it doesn't have a hernia, throw up its hands and runs off screaming into the distance :-) .

No, that's exactly what happens. It examines the CPU feature set and gives up if features aren't available.

In the case of PAE, it is because PAE requires 3 level page tables and non-PAE requires 2 level page tables. They can't currently coexist.

-Jeff

Which is why the default kernel didn't collapse in a screaming heap because my Athlon XP cpu does have pae support :-) , and the default kernel in 11.2 does have pae support enabled as one of its parameters. But surely suggesting what you did above that the kernel gives up if the features are not available is a slight exaggeration? :-) If this was the case then for every installation the kernel would need to be compiled in real time to suit the cpu being used. Or is this where modules come into play and are loaded if required? I am not an expert and so am simply asking to be 'heducated' :-) . BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:53:07 +1100, you wrote:

But surely suggesting what you did above that the kernel gives up if the features are not available is a slight exaggeration? :-)

No it isn't! As Jeff said, PAE *requires* three level page tables and if the processor doesn't offer them it will refuse to load. The memory handling code relies on the number of page table levels available (i.e. the indirection needed to resolve addresses) and can currently only be changed by recompiling the kernel. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:20:08 +1100, you wrote:

But then you made the broad statement that the kernel gives up when a feature is not available is what I was responding to

Maybe you should get yourself a new pair of glasses :) I didn't state anything in this thread before my reply to your response to Jeff. And it's still true that for some features the kernel does give up when they're not available. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

No it isn't! As Jeff said, PAE *requires* three level page tables and if the processor doesn't offer them it will refuse to load. The memory handling code relies on the number of page table levels available (i.e. the indirection needed to resolve addresses) and can currently only be changed by recompiling the kernel.

All Intel CPUs from the PPro onward, the AMD Athlon onwards, and the Via C7 Onwards support PAE. I think that to have a proc classified as i686 it has to support PAE(which is probably why the K6 series isn't classed as i686 and the current stuff won't install on them). My issue with PAE is that it doesn't provide anything useful unless you have a proc that has the NX/XD bit(Or more than 4GB RAM on a 32bit system). So, unless you have one of the 32bit ones(Pentium M(most of them), Core Duo/Solo) then the only other reason to use PAE is if you are running 32bit on a 64bit proc to enable the NX/XD bit. Now that 64bit is basically stable and has been, most 64bit owners should probably be encouraged to use 64bit anyway. Using PAE adds complexity that most don't really need. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Larry Finger wrote:

The DVD and the NET install are both set to handle i586 and will install on K6 CPUs. Only the LiveCD variations are specifically set for i686.

I have an ancient laptop with a K6, which is why I'm familiar with this topic.

Hmmm. I tried the 11.0 DVD on an K6-2/500 and it wouldn't install. I'll have to try again. Thanx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org