Il martedì 15 dicembre 2009, Hubert Mantel scrisse:

Hi,

On Mon, Dec 14, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

...

One of our policies regarding kernel updates is that we'll fix bugs pertaining to usability until the next release. Otherwise, it's security, data loss/corruption, and system crash fixes until EOL. While it could be argued that hardware enablement falls under usability, we haven't treated it that way in the past.

Well, that depends on your definition of "past" :)

...

I'd like to revisit that.

[...]

...

The particular driver I was asked about is completely standalone. I don't have a problem including it since it won't affect anything else.

So just go ahead. You will not hurt anybody, but chances are you will make some people happy. I agree, Extending hardware support is always a good thing. Obviously without breaking existing one :) There should be updates for staging drivers too, not only for new hardware.. bye.

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Il martedì 15 dicembre 2009, Greg KH scrisse:

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 06:28:34PM +0100, Daniele wrote:

...

There should be updates for staging drivers too, not only for new hardware..

If you have a specific staging driver that you want updated, please let me know. Hi Greg, rt2860 is a good candidate for un update (#561610). On obs there is a x64 version but not i586. Bye.

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Il martedì 15 dicembre 2009, Greg KH scrisse:

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 07:37:11PM +0100, Daniele wrote:

...

Il martedì 15 dicembre 2009, Greg KH scrisse:

...

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 06:28:34PM +0100, Daniele wrote:

...

There should be updates for staging drivers too, not only for new hardware..

If you have a specific staging driver that you want updated, please let me know.

Hi Greg, rt2860 is a good candidate for un update (#561610).

It's easier to add a whole new driver, than update an existing one.

If you can confirm that the version in 2.6.32 works properly, I'll consider backporting the changes. I didn't try but: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-bugs/2009-12/msg03737.html

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/15/2009 12:20 PM, Larry Finger wrote:

On 12/14/2009 07:09 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

I think this is a good idea. The current policy heavily penalizes the user whose hardware was supported by the kernel that was released just after the distro was frozen. Most of my activity is with wireless drivers, which have many changes with each kernel release, as well as manufacturers releasing new hardware on a regular basis.

For me, kernel 2.6.32 is much more usable than 2.6.31 because one of my devices is a Broadcom BCM4312. It must be said, however, that the changes needed to support that chip are likely to be too invasive to fit under your guidelines. That will be the hardest part of implementing the proposed changes - how invasive can the changes be?

Does your proposed new policy automatically exclude those drivers in staging?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean updating staging/ drivers or adding new ones? I have no problem adding new staging/ drivers. They definitely fit the "standalone" requirement. I don't have any objections to revving staging/ drivers in general. Most changes will only improve their quality. I don't really want to say that it will happen automatically, though. That ends up being quite a lot of work for kernel teams that are already heavily overloaded. OTOH, now that we have a public git repo, I wouldn't be opposed accepting pull requests that rev staging drivers. There are a lot of things we could end up doing that we haven't in the past if we have more community involvement. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SuSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksnyv4ACgkQLPWxlyuTD7IJRQCfc61FWCNe6gM6skHmdJspnv6Q 3FYAn1uJVPO4iOpeD2KMTut7BdrZB9JE =Fn7P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 12/15/2009 11:44 AM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

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On 12/15/2009 12:20 PM, Larry Finger wrote:

...

On 12/14/2009 07:09 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

I think this is a good idea. The current policy heavily penalizes the user whose hardware was supported by the kernel that was released just after the distro was frozen. Most of my activity is with wireless drivers, which have many changes with each kernel release, as well as manufacturers releasing new hardware on a regular basis.

For me, kernel 2.6.32 is much more usable than 2.6.31 because one of my devices is a Broadcom BCM4312. It must be said, however, that the changes needed to support that chip are likely to be too invasive to fit under your guidelines. That will be the hardest part of implementing the proposed changes - how invasive can the changes be?

Does your proposed new policy automatically exclude those drivers in staging?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean updating staging/ drivers or adding new ones? I have no problem adding new staging/ drivers. They definitely fit the "standalone" requirement.

The question really was whether your phrase "mainline drivers" included those in "staging". From what you say below, it obviously does.

I don't have any objections to revving staging/ drivers in general. Most changes will only improve their quality. I don't really want to say that it will happen automatically, though. That ends up being quite a lot of work for kernel teams that are already heavily overloaded.

OTOH, now that we have a public git repo, I wouldn't be opposed accepting pull requests that rev staging drivers. There are a lot of things we could end up doing that we haven't in the past if we have more community involvement.

With git, the pull from staging shouldn't cause the kernel teams too much effort to get them to build. The fact that driver is in staging removes a lot of guarantees. In addition, those drivers are generally in better shape than the initial version of the vendor's driver, which is likely the user's only other option. At least this is true for Realtek's rtl8187se driver. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/15/2009 01:40 PM, Karsten König wrote:

Good day everybody,

can't you just create an obs repository which is semi official? Kernel:Extra- Modules for example?

This will make it easy for people to add support for non out of the 11.2 box hardware and otherwise keep the stock kernel clear.

There are already a few repos for things like that under drivers:<subsystem> So, yes, it's possible to do that now... except it ends up being _more_ work than just adding them to to the kernel package since it means creation of a new package for each one instead of just adding some patches to the kernel-source package. Not to mention that users would need to figure out which repo held the driver they're looking for. I guess your suggestion of a unified Kernel:Extra-Modules project full of _link packages would solve that issue, though. As far as user experience goes, I'm more concerned with "easy" than "possible." - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SuSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksn2pgACgkQLPWxlyuTD7K8KQCgheSKRHuLptWsExgENi1Qc6dG zmIAn0dsKKKfBaHOu0iQpR7e60EWqSIB =UIAR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:49:25 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote:

2) Download size, many updates to mainline kernel.

Not that much of an issue due to deltarpms. -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le 16/12/2009 15:31, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Kernel updates need a reboot. Not nice.

didn't that sould desapear? I remember a thread discussing new kernels didn't anymore ask for reboot? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org