On 24 May 2016 at 21:02, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

...

There are two exceptions though. The SLE12SP2 Beta1 sources landed in OBS and we got Qt 5.6 and kernel 4.4 from there already.

Is there any chance that 42.2 will get a 4.6 or newer kernel?

The key feature for me is much better USB 3.1 support. USB 3.1 has been around for a while now, so it seems like something that should be better supported in Leap 42.2.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=USB3.1-More-For-Linux-4.6

ps: I know 4.4 is a LTS kernel, I just don't when the next LTS kernel may come along. Sometime this summer would not be a surprise:

https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Thanks Greg

Greg, please, no For starters, Kernel 4.4 has sufficient USB 3.1 support Kernel 4.6 is adding USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices (aka SuperSpeedPlus) USB 3.1 devices is not the same as Type-C or power delivery, both of which are supported in Kernel 4.4 I have not yet seen any hardware that requires USB 3.1 Gen 2 support If anyone out there has it, then I consider them likely to be the kind of cutting edge, technological enthusiast who would be better served by Tumbleweed. As Yamaban has already said, Kernel 4.4 is the LTS release for 2016 We are releasing Leap 42.2 in 2016 Furthermore, it's the Kernel which is going to be in SLE 12 SP2, meaning we get SLE patches, which is a good thing If you want a different kernel version, please realise that the Leap release model (which means 42.1 will be supported for 6 months after Leap 42.2's release, not 2 months like the old openSUSE model). This means our Kernel team is going to have to support 2 kernels for a longer period of time than they ever had to before. That's a lot of work for them (especially as Leap 42.1 already chose something other than the SLE kernel) Taking the SLE Kernel effectively nullifies that extra work, provides a more stable foundation for Leap users, ensures Leap users are going to get a kernel that is constantly patched and exceptionally well maintained, and is still newer than the 4.1 Kernel which was 2015's LTS Kernel and is in Leap 42.1 It's the best option we have today, it's the best option we will have over summer, and will be the best for users when we release Leap 42.2 in November. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/24/2016 05:10 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

...

On 24 May 2016 at 21:02, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

...

There are two exceptions though. The SLE12SP2 Beta1 sources landed in OBS and we got Qt 5.6 and kernel 4.4 from there already.

Is there any chance that 42.2 will get a 4.6 or newer kernel?

The key feature for me is much better USB 3.1 support. USB 3.1 has been around for a while now, so it seems like something that should be better supported in Leap 42.2.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=USB3.1-More-For-Linux-4.6

ps: I know 4.4 is a LTS kernel, I just don't when the next LTS kernel may come along. Sometime this summer would not be a surprise:

https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Thanks Greg

Greg, please, no

I can live with a 4.4 kernel, but I do think USB 3.1 Gen 2 support is very appropriate for Leap 42.2 which will be the main Leap distro for most of 2017.

...

For starters, Kernel 4.4 has sufficient USB 3.1 support Kernel 4.6 is adding USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices (aka SuperSpeedPlus) USB 3.1 devices is not the same as Type-C or power delivery, both of which are supported in Kernel 4.4

Agreed

...

I have not yet seen any hardware that requires USB 3.1 Gen 2 support

"requires" I don't know about. But I bought my first USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCI card in Oct 2015.

I now have 4 of them. In my testing I am seeing greater than 500 MB/sec speeds with:

- Tumbleweed as of a month or so ago (kernel 4.5) - a Type-C connection to a USB 3.1 Gen 2 sata docking station - a highspeed Samsung SSD (over 560 MByte / sec spec)

With that combo I got 580 MB/sec speeds.

Would I get the performance increase with a 4.4 kernel? (I have no idea as I haven't tested that).

Even with a 4.5 kernel my late April Tumbleweed testing did NOT show proper reporting of the speed.

I looked in both dmesg and "lsusb -t"

I tested 2 different brands of USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIexpress cards. My assumption is that even with a 4.5 kernel, the drivers haven't yet fully implemented SuperSpeedPlus reporting.

...

If anyone out there has it, then I consider them likely to be the kind of cutting edge, technological enthusiast who would be better served by Tumbleweed.

I am running a modern computer yes, but not because I want to experiment. Stability and performance are both very important to me. Especially USB performance. I routinely transfer 100s of GBs (or low numbers of TBs) of data between USB devices.

...

As Yamaban has already said, Kernel 4.4 is the LTS release for 2016

We are releasing Leap 42.2 in 2016

Unfortunately for me that is a strong argument.

...

Furthermore, it's the Kernel which is going to be in SLE 12 SP2, meaning we get SLE patches, which is a good thing

If you want a different kernel version, please realise that the Leap release model (which means 42.1 will be supported for 6 months after Leap 42.2's release, not 2 months like the old openSUSE model).

Well, the old model had 2 months where 3 kernels were supported. ie. The kernels for 13.0, 13.1, and 13.2 were all supported for 2 months immediately following 13.2's release.

I assume that for the 2 months immediately following 42.2's release there will be 3 kernels supported as well: kernels for 13.2, 42.1, and 42.2

Thus the situation for those 2 months is exactly the same as it has been for many years.

The real change is 6 months after 42.2 is released. By that point both 13.2 and 42.1 will be out of support, and there will be only one openSUSE supported kernel (4.4 it seems).

...

This means our Kernel team is going to have to support 2 kernels for a longer period of time than they ever had to before. That's a lot of work for them (especially as Leap 42.1 already chose something other than the SLE kernel)

Taking the SLE Kernel effectively nullifies that extra work, provides a more stable foundation for Leap users, ensures Leap users are going to get a kernel that is constantly patched and exceptionally well maintained, and is still newer than the 4.1 Kernel which was 2015's LTS Kernel and is in Leap 42.1

It's the best option we have today, it's the best option we will have over summer, and will be the best for users when we release Leap 42.2 in November.

Obviously I think that Leap should offer full USB 3.1 Gen 2 support prior to 42.3's release roughly 18 months from now. That will be fully 2 years after USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices became available.

How that is achieved is I don't know. Back ports to the 4.4 kernel? Formal support of the early 2017 LTS kernel?

Greg

Can the thermal patch (bogus passive trip point at 0 degrees)for kernel 4.6 be backported for Lenovo laptops? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 25/05/16 01:50 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2016 00:07:12 +0200, Roman Bysh wrote:

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Can the thermal patch (bogus passive trip point at 0 degrees)for kernel 4.6 be backported for Lenovo laptops?

Whatever the bug fixes that are backportable should be backported. If the patches are properly marked with Cc to stable, they are backported to 4.4.x stable tree automatically. If not, it's either not applicable to 4.4.x or Cc-to-stable was forgotten.

In anyway, if the fixes are missing, please just report on Bugzilla.

Takashi

Looks like this patch has already been backported in April. It would be nice if the wiki had a changlogs.opensuse.org for the kernels. Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 26/05/16 05:28 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

On 26 May 2016 at 22:48, Roman Bysh wrote:

...

Looks like this patch has already been backported in April. It would be nice if the wiki had a changlogs.opensuse.org for the kernels.

Roman

Nice idea, but i think you have no idea just how much information that would be

Leap 42.2 currently contains Kernel 4.4.11

The upstream changelogs for 4.4.11 are the *combined total* of the following text files:

https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.1 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.2 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.3 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.4 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.5 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.6 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.7 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.8 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.9 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.10 https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.4.11

That is over FOURTY THOUSAND lines of changelog entries alone. Not code. _changelog_

https://build.opensuse.org/source/openSUSE:Leap:42.2/kernel-source/kernel-so...

includes another 633 lines of changelog entries added in the last *7 days* since the inclusion of 4.4.11 in OBS

(Side note: if anyone ever says anything about our kernel guys not doing enough work I intend to point them to this thread in the archives, good work!)

Or to put it another way..if you want to single-handedly copy/paste and maintain thousands of lines of information in the wiki, be my guest, but I think you have better things to do with your time... so maybe a better technique would be to use Google and grep to scan changelogs for the things you are interested in?

Yikes! I carumba and mama mia!! That's a lot of code!! The openSUSE forums are loaded with questions about touchpads or keyboards not working. Perhaps just finding out if touchpads have been fixed or keyboards for specific laptops? I've been recommending updating to kernel 4.4x and they started working. Thanks Richard Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/24/2016 06:20 PM, Yamaban wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2016 23:10, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

...

On 24 May 2016 at 21:02, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

...

There are two exceptions though. The SLE12SP2 Beta1 sources landed in OBS and we got Qt 5.6 and kernel 4.4 from there already.

Is there any chance that 42.2 will get a 4.6 or newer kernel?

The key feature for me is much better USB 3.1 support. USB 3.1 has been around for a while now, so it seems like something that should be better supported in Leap 42.2.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=USB3.1-More-For-Linux-4.6

ps: I know 4.4 is a LTS kernel, I just don't when the next LTS kernel may come along. Sometime this summer would not be a surprise:

https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Thanks Greg

Greg, please, no

I can live with a 4.4 kernel, but I do think USB 3.1 Gen 2 support is very appropriate for Leap 42.2 which will be the main Leap distro for most of 2017.

...

For starters, Kernel 4.4 has sufficient USB 3.1 support Kernel 4.6 is adding USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices (aka SuperSpeedPlus) USB 3.1 devices is not the same as Type-C or power delivery, both of which are supported in Kernel 4.4

Agreed

...

I have not yet seen any hardware that requires USB 3.1 Gen 2 support

"requires" I don't know about. But I bought my first USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCI card in Oct 2015.

I now have 4 of them. In my testing I am seeing greater than 500 MB/sec speeds with:

- Tumbleweed as of a month or so ago (kernel 4.5) - a Type-C connection to a USB 3.1 Gen 2 sata docking station - a highspeed Samsung SSD (over 560 MByte / sec spec)

With that combo I got 580 MB/sec speeds.

Would I get the performance increase with a 4.4 kernel? (I have no idea as I haven't tested that).

Even with a 4.5 kernel my late April Tumbleweed testing did NOT show proper reporting of the speed.

I looked in both dmesg and "lsusb -t"

I tested 2 different brands of USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIexpress cards. My assumption is that even with a 4.5 kernel, the drivers haven't yet fully implemented SuperSpeedPlus reporting.

...

If anyone out there has it, then I consider them likely to be the kind of cutting edge, technological enthusiast who would be better served by Tumbleweed.

I am running a modern computer yes, but not because I want to experiment. Stability and performance are both very important to me. Especially USB performance. I routinely transfer 100s of GBs (or low numbers of TBs) of data between USB devices.

...

As Yamaban has already said, Kernel 4.4 is the LTS release for 2016

We are releasing Leap 42.2 in 2016

Unfortunately for me that is a strong argument.

...

Furthermore, it's the Kernel which is going to be in SLE 12 SP2, meaning we get SLE patches, which is a good thing

If you want a different kernel version, please realise that the Leap release model (which means 42.1 will be supported for 6 months after Leap 42.2's release, not 2 months like the old openSUSE model).

Well, the old model had 2 months where 3 kernels were supported. ie. The kernels for 13.0, 13.1, and 13.2 were all supported for 2 months immediately following 13.2's release.

I assume that for the 2 months immediately following 42.2's release there will be 3 kernels supported as well: kernels for 13.2, 42.1, and 42.2

Thus the situation for those 2 months is exactly the same as it has been for many years.

The real change is 6 months after 42.2 is released. By that point both 13.2 and 42.1 will be out of support, and there will be only one openSUSE supported kernel (4.4 it seems).

...

This means our Kernel team is going to have to support 2 kernels for a longer period of time than they ever had to before. That's a lot of work for them (especially as Leap 42.1 already chose something other than the SLE kernel)

Taking the SLE Kernel effectively nullifies that extra work, provides a more stable foundation for Leap users, ensures Leap users are going to get a kernel that is constantly patched and exceptionally well maintained, and is still newer than the 4.1 Kernel which was 2015's LTS Kernel and is in Leap 42.1

It's the best option we have today, it's the best option we will have over summer, and will be the best for users when we release Leap 42.2 in November.

Obviously I think that Leap should offer full USB 3.1 Gen 2 support prior to 42.3's release roughly 18 months from now. That will be fully 2 years after USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices became available.

How that is achieved is I don't know. Back ports to the 4.4 kernel? Formal support of the early 2017 LTS kernel?

Well your best bet would be to lobby for the backports into 4.4 kernel. That way, you will have the greatest change to get "USB 3.1 Gen 2" (10Gbs, Thunderbolt, etc) into Leap 42.2 / SLE12SP2.

And by lobby I mean asking upstream (kernel/lkml) for the backports.

A "Formal support of the early 2017 LTS kernel" is uptopian, sadly, at best we would get LTS.next minus two releases. NOT what we want.

In light of the LTS kernel the only thing would be to move the release date of Leap / SLE, e.g. - Kernel in January / settling in Tumbleweed - Leap first Alpha in late February / early March - Leap first Beta mid/late April - SLE (sp) first Alpha early May - Leap freeze late May - SLE (sp) first Beta mid June - Leap last full patch pull-in / first RC mid/late June - SLE (sp) freeze early July / or better mid August - Leap release mid/late July - SLE (sp) last full patch pull-in / first RC early / mid September - SLE (sp) release early / mid October

May be little thighter, with a Leap release in late June.

Stacking the things this way you get the most benefit for the SLE team (thus they have a great incentive to cooperate with the Leap team). And for the SLE the date-move would not be that big.

Keep in mind the summer vacations.

SLE could pull in most of the Leap patches / updates before their RC and thus avoiding many of the (unavoidable) early after release Leap bugs.

But all this talk on moving the release date will have no impact the upcomming release this November.

You want full "USB 3.1 Gen 2" in Leap 42.2? -- Lobby upstream for backport!

- Yamaban. bugzilla.kernel.org? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2016-05-24 at 17:10 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:

Would I get the performance increase with a 4.4 kernel? (I have no idea as I haven't tested that).

Please do so. It would be interesting.

Even with a 4.5 kernel my late April Tumbleweed testing did NOT show proper reporting of the speed.

I looked in both dmesg and "lsusb -t"

Please make a bnc and assign it to me, if the problem still shows.

I tested 2 different brands of USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIexpress cards. My assumption is that even with a 4.5 kernel, the drivers haven't yet fully implemented SuperSpeedPlus reporting.

The hub driver was still broken. The reported speeds were incorrect. I've sent fixes upstream. Regards Oliver -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 24 May 2016 21:02:44 +0200, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

...

There are two exceptions though. The SLE12SP2 Beta1 sources landed in OBS and we got Qt 5.6 and kernel 4.4 from there already.

Is there any chance that 42.2 will get a 4.6 or newer kernel?

The key feature for me is much better USB 3.1 support. USB 3.1 has been around for a while now, so it seems like something that should be better supported in Leap 42.2.

USB 3.1 SuperSpeedPlus support has been already backported to SLE12-SP2, thus to 42.2 kernel, too. It's the very merit of sharing the SLE kernel code. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org