On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 10:34 +0200, Thomas Langkamp wrote:
Can we agree that packman is the most important user repo of openSUSE so that it should be treated special?
I'm afraid I cannot. I can agree that Packman is an important repo for providing some patent encumbered packages.
some? Those are really important for desktop users. thats the reason why they were patented. If you want to watch videos (offline, non-flash) or hear music (except mp3) you most definetly need packman.
No, you don't... you could actually go the patent-legal way and buy the OnePlay Codec Pack... stating that you must use PM is like stating you must commit a crime to use watch Videos (depending on region that is... )
so again - why not setup openQA also for packman? Nobody answered this yet. Is this an unreasonable request?
That's something the packman team would have to organize. Note that PM is not provided by the openSUSE project... so asking about improvements on the packman infrastructure here is probably about as useful as asking Apple to improve the openSUSE infrastructure... they are just disjoint.
true. TW is very stable thanks to openQA and all your hard work. but quality lies also in functionality and in this respect openSUSE lacks multimedia quality due to patents. Why do some other distros (ubuntu) do not have those problems? Do they pay?
They have their corporate headquarter on Cayman ilands.. try to sue them.. and you'll fail in many ways :)
gnome-software and muon also use PackageKit and also cannot handle conflicts. Apper was an example. Is there any chance that conflict-handling can be included in packagekit?
The 'problem' here is that PK was not designed for a full user -interaction, but it relies on proper repositories - something other distros have less trouble to offer (as they do not use OBS, making it so easy to create additional, conflicting repositories)
=> further comments:
A users confirmation to install the automatically proposed update is desired, agreed. A password will be needed for new software only, as this is already the way PackageKit/Apper & Win7 (just tested) are doing it from user accounts.
This is already done in GNOME with GNOME Software/PackageKit
what exactly. automatic updates for TW on Gnome are working and enabled?
No, that referred to the password not being needed for updates. gnome -software does download the updates in the background, but does not apply them without user action (one possible action is the tickbox on shutdown: apply system update (screenshot pasted at http://paste.opensuse.org/51189139 for your reference)
For me you had a +1 for this _for servers & advanced users_, but a strong -1 for _desktops for beginners_.
If you want a nice noob-friendly desktop, you shouldn't expect a beginner to know they have to install a whole bunch of optional packages, and just give them all to them at all the time.
I'd argue that someone who cares about the presence of additional packages they don't need/use is by definition, not a beginner.
ok, good point. did not see it that way. we can erase this one from my list :D
Packagers should be more aware of the distinction between recommended
and suggested packages:
- Recommended: automatically installed, greatly enhances the capability
of the package. Even if it could work without this feature, it is
impaired
- Suggested: a functional enhancement. The user should be aware that
the feature is provided, but for normal operation of a package, this is
not needed.
The 'suggests' might need to be better exposed in YaST Software Manager
though...
Cheers,
Dominique
--
Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger