On Wednesday 25 April 2012 16:09:24 Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On 2012-04-25 15:51, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey Per,
Henne, just to clarify - surely this list is also for reporting/ discussing problems with current Factory?
Reporting no, use Bugzilla.
Do you mean that we have to report all issues in Bugzilla, without asking first here our peers whether it is a read bug?
Basically, I think it is something like this: - if an experienced tester (user or developer) who is capable of determining the root cause mails here and helps dig out the issue and test possible solutions, it's appreciated - if an unexperienced newby asks about an issue he/she has, it costs a lot of time but the devs are often nice enough to work with him/her. - if hundreds of such newbies would show up we couldn't work anymore.
Bugzilla is overpowered, I have issues without attention for years.
In theory, yes, all issues probably should go via bugzilla. In practice, I know we don't work like that and that's why I said its worth discussing. We need to think about how we want to work.
Discussing yes, preferably a discussion among the people that do something about it (the developers).
I disagree, users also do something about it by simply testing. Discouraging users from participation is a bad idea.
It's not about that. It is about signal/noise ratio. If there is too much uninformed/irrelevant chatter this mailing list becomes useless and openSUSE development comes to a grinding halt. We don't want that so we have to protect the usefulness of this list. How exactly, and what we consider noise etc - that's the unclear (or at least wholy undocumented and implicit) part. We are all aware that someone who doesn't know anything now and thus is chased of the list might have become an incredibly valuable tester 3 months from now... We need to take that case into consideration. There are some possible ways out of this. For example: === testers hang out on a separate list, discuss problems and help each other find the root cause and filter out non-bugs. 'real' bugs are then brought to the developers via either bugzilla (? with a special "verified" flag?) or directly to the factory ML via a few 'gatekeepers'. === It is a rather formalized solution, not really in openSUSE spirit, but it is something which scales far better than our current solution (all on this list). We, as a project, are growing, and this list will become more and more crowded. Anyway. I'm just trying to illustrate we need to think about this and talk about it in person - there are solutions but we can't pick one easily, certainly not over a mailing list with all its associated limitations (if only because this is wholy off-topic for -factory). One last thing: all this has nothing to do with not appreciating the testing or help by non-developers. We do appreciate it, we just need to find the proper channels to not over-crowd our list(s) to the point where we can't get any work done anymore. Cheers, Jos
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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