On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Hi all,
(tiwai or ftake, can you please translate to Japanese and spread it out to Japanese Community?)
Sure, how can I do?
https://docs.google.com/a/marguerite.su/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdoMmU... here's the form. please help me translate the introduction and options into Japanese, and send them to me. I'll modify the form then. btw, please help me add some sentence in Japanese to encourage use write the input method he's now using and would like to use. because in my options, there're only one Japanese method, mozc( I really have little knowledge of Japanese IM)
Although fcitx is much more popular and useful than IBus in Chinese community, in Japan, almost no one knows it, unfortunately. # I have a friend from Taiwan. He use ibus-chewing.
Honestly speaking for further improvement of fcitx, current released version (fcitx-mozc) does not have enough quality for daily use as far as I tried.
I think what you have to do for Japanese community is improving it so that you can explain how fcitx is superior than IBus in almost all point.
Yes, fcitx developer is also in this thread. one of the problems for fcitx J support is that the developer himself is a Chinese who don't understand Japanese. but as the anthy library is documented in English, it is not that important. the biggest one is nowadays users of mozc-fcitx are just some Chinese ACGers. they just use it to input Japanese word, not sentence, and not on a daily basis. so hard to detect bugs. and since mozc is close developed, FOSS communities does not accept it well, so it's not packaged so wide(only by debian and us). anyway, Japanese communities and users are a little far aways from fcitx developer, but he's willing to hear from them. maybe one or two. that's enough for him. he's about to implement fcitx-anthy(for sure, there's an early state package in home:opensuse_zh), fcitx-skk and fcitx-wnn(maybe), but he is now concentrating his graduation paper, so he can start 2 or 3 months later. any feedback or suggestion to him is appreciated.(eg, which input method backend is the most famous and successful in Japan, anthy? skk? wnn? or else?)
If you show this over quick proposal to Japanese users, it might give them bad impression.
You know, the reason we switch to IBus in 12.1 includes that IBus become as configurable as SCIM.
Yes, Takashi and I made an agreement to keep ibus for now. because no better choice. and Takashi didn't want mozc to be included as default IM for jp locale. because it's close developed and does not accept any patch. if one day it fails, japanese users will hate us because they don't know the details.
I agree with dropping some old IMs from automatically installed package. I have feature request related to this: https://features.opensuse.org/313412
I have already created requests to drop scim and bring fcitx/gcin in. in M17N
With regard to Mozc, it seems that the developers try to concentrate on IBus like the mozc_renderor feature. They will remove code for SCIM soon. We have to be careful.
I and many Japanese users want to put Mozc into the official repository as an exception for usability.
then it's another story. you can ask them to vote for mozc or any other favorite IM. anyway, user experience is much more important than patches. since there're already someone develop it, even they don't want our code work, they still welcome our feedback.
And... I'm watching the git repository of IBus and I think it is very active project.
yep. 9 persons. and it's the default method for fedora, there must be someone continues it. but to tell the truth, famous bugs are still there, like input in Firefox/Chromium, and etc. users already have bad impression on it. once they leave, it's harder to call them back than newbies. the only thing it's there is because it's shipped by default. in my survey, there're Taiwan users who are using ibus, but vote for gcin/hime.
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
(12/05/11 17:09), Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi, last night I asked coolo about how to replace input methods in ISOs. he said all I have to do is to make proposal here and cc-ed to related parts like maintianers of those input methods and users interested in.
Here're the names I found from OBS. they're package maintainers. below are their packages and locales.
Me myself: fcitx, hime. zh_CN
hillwood: fcitx zh_CN
swyear: fcitx, ibus, gcin zh_TW
tiwai: mozc, scim jp
ftake: mozc jp
and if everyone feel affected or involved in this issue, please feel free to join.
(because those input methods also support other languages besides CJK, although such support is minor.)
and Here're the packages involved:
scim/ibus: they're the Chinese input methods in the old days.
fcitx/gcin/hime: they're the Chinese input methods in modern Linux.
mozc: it's popular IM in Japan.
of course they're both for Linux, and both open source works.
and the situation is, when I freshly installed openSUSE, the first thing I do is uninstall those old-time input methods and install new ones. so I wonder if this situation is common, and if it is common, why not replace them by default instead of leaving works to our users?
so I made a survey:
https://docs.google.com/a/marguerite.su/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdoMmU...
and posted on G+, forums. the temporary result I've got is this situation is common in Chinese Community.
(tiwai or ftake, can you please translate to Japanese and spread it out to Japanese Community?)
(since we do not have active Korean developers here, so no way to hear from them. so only C and J here.)
and my proposal is:
1. drop scim/ibus from DVD/CD. (they're really old and react slow to bugs and have famous bugs) 2. add fcitx/gcin/mozc in. (hime is just another fork of gcin. it's another issue, it has a small user database)
so guys what do you think?
Marguerite
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