On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Guido Berhoerster
* Todd Rme
[2014-08-12 11:03]: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:58 PM, David Haller
wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014, Pascal Bleser wrote:
I think that the pretty emotional component of the reactions and statements on the topic does reinforce the idea that it is mostly about that psychological aspect.
If you step back and look at the big picture, the whole process of how systemd crept up as a "just a new init" up to what it's now (and what it may gobble up next), you may reevaluate those reactions ...
You, and other members of the anti-systemd crowd, make it sound like systemd developers held a gun to the heads of developers and forced them to join the systemd project, forced them to adopt sytemd in their distro, forced them to adopt systemd in the desktop environments.
Yes, that pretty much summarizes it. Since the systemd authors are closely aligned with the u* and *kit folks, basic functions of desktop environments are now totally broken (session tracking which is the basis managing authorization of hotplugging, auto-mounting, system-shutdown etc., system shutdown, suspend, hibernation and inhibition of systemd handling of power buttons and so on and so forth) unless they change the code and add systemd support and workarounds. So yes, DE authors face the choice of having their DE unusable on systemd distros or adopt its usage (unless they are able to compete with the raw engineering power of RedHat and create an alternative middle stack for Linux).
That is not what I am talking about. For example, for Wayland, KDE developers plan to use systemd socket activation for plasma workspaces to replace the old KDE service bash script. They were not planning to support upstart since its version of socket activation was far too limited (and upstart is a moot point now anyway). That means that, when using Wayland, plasma workspaces will depend on systemd, not because systemd forced them to, but because it provides features they find useful. xfce already supports using systemd socket activation for similar purposes. Things like logind are used because none of the alternatives are maintained. And again, this ignores the fact that projects joined the systemd umbrella because they wanted to, sytemd developers didn't force them to.
Projects voluntarily chose to join systemd because they thought it would benefit their project. Distros voluntarily chose to adopt systemd because they thought it made handling init easier compared to the alternatives. Desktop environments chose to adopt systemd because it provides features they think are useful that aren't available anywhere else.
Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about.
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