At Fri, 11 May 2012 19:35:07 +0800, Marguerite Su wrote:
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Takashi Iwai
wrote: At Fri, 11 May 2012 17:05:49 +0800, Marguerite Su wrote:
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Takashi Iwai
wrote: At Fri, 11 May 2012 16:09:08 +0800, Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi, last night I asked coolo about how to replace input methods in ISOs. he said all I have to do is to make proposal here and cc-ed to related parts like maintianers of those input methods and users interested in.
Here're the names I found from OBS. they're package maintainers. below are their packages and locales.
Me myself: fcitx, hime. zh_CN
hillwood: fcitx zh_CN
swyear: fcitx, ibus, gcin zh_TW
tiwai: mozc, scim jp
ftake: mozc jp
and if everyone feel affected or involved in this issue, please feel free to join.
(because those input methods also support other languages besides CJK, although such support is minor.)
and Here're the packages involved:
scim/ibus: they're the Chinese input methods in the old days.
fcitx/gcin/hime: they're the Chinese input methods in modern Linux.
mozc: it's popular IM in Japan.
of course they're both for Linux, and both open source works.
and the situation is, when I freshly installed openSUSE, the first thing I do is uninstall those old-time input methods and install new ones. so I wonder if this situation is common, and if it is common, why not replace them by default instead of leaving works to our users?
You don't need to uninstall the old IMs at all. It's just a missing installation of the new IMs. See below.
so I made a survey: https://docs.google.com/a/marguerite.su/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdoMmU...
and posted on G+, forums. the temporary result I've got is this situation is common in Chinese Community.
(tiwai or ftake, can you please translate to Japanese and spread it out to Japanese Community?)
(since we do not have active Korean developers here, so no way to hear from them. so only C and J here.)
and my proposal is:
1. drop scim/ibus from DVD/CD. (they're really old and react slow to bugs and have famous bugs) 2. add fcitx/gcin/mozc in. (hime is just another fork of gcin. it's another issue, it has a small user database)
so guys what do you think?
The biggest problem regarding mozc is that its development is closed. They accept no patch. Thus some people don't want to take mozc as the default input method. And, if we want other than mozc for Japanese, fcitx would be no option because it doesn't provide any other clients.
Hi, Takashi,
can you explain a little bit more about the "And..." sentence? I'm confused...
do you want to say, if mozc is the default for J, then fcitx will be uninstalled automatically?
No, I wrote "other than mozc". That is, mozc won't be the default IM for Japanese unless they change the development attitude. Sorry for unclearness.
And I never wrote to "uninstall". As mentioned, the uninstallation isn't necessary at all. All what we need for fcitx is the adjustment of IM priority and the lack of automatic installation of fcitx.
thanks. I'm a little slow in mind in the afternoon, XD.
then seems to raise another question(s):
what's the input method nowadays for your locale? what will be the input method then if scim/ibus or both is dropped from DVD?
since as you said, mozc can't be (while I still wonder, it's open source, if it's strong enough and popular, does it really matter that much if they accept patches?), and as I know, you need an input method.
and fcitx developer focus his concentration on mozc, fcitx-anthy became zombie for a while. of course I can ask him to keep developing it. (indeed he's listening to our thread, as he said this morning:" I'd be happy") but now you don't have an input method available.
Right. So, for Japanese, ibus is still the requirement on DVD. And, I don't think we go for dropping ibus from DVD, at least, for 12.2. 12.1 was the first version we take ibus as default, and in the next version already not on DVD? This doesn't sound right. I'm for dropping scim from DVD. (Possibly keeping in distro for old users, but at least we can get rid of the automatic installation of scim.) However, ibus is a different question.
but mozc now has fcitx patch and does not depend on fcitx. it can be run solely. so why not Japanese need fcitx package installed?
That being said, unfortuantely there is no single choice to satisfy the demands for all languages.
But, this is no big issue in practice. Adjusting which IM to use as default is basically an easy task on openSUSE.
We have a priority list of IMs for each locale: see /etc/X11/xim.d/*. Adjust the priority of fcitx, gcin and others appropriately for your locale. The priority symlinks are included in each package.
Then, modify the pattern list. Put fcitx or whatever there. But, also note that the packages including "Provides: locale(xxx)" are automatically selected when you choose the locale during the installation. This is missing in fcitx, for example. If it were, this package should have been automatically installed.
Basically that's all. Of course, we can remove scim from the pattern, for example. But this will be installed automatically via "Provides:locale()" mechanism, so it doesn't matter so much.
oh I learn another smart tip. so do you mean,
1 ask coolo to add those IMs into ISO. 2 add Provides: locale(XXX) strings to them 3 modify their xim.d to make sure they have priority over scim/ibus. 4 then they'll be the first choice when selecting that locale.
Correct.
but I still call for drop scim from DVD.
because, eg, it's for Chinese, and now zh_CN has fcitx and zh_TW has gcin.
Right.
then who'll installed it at the fist time from DVD. ibus still have some users,
scim, really it's time to let it retire...
Yes. From DVD, we can drop now. (But the migration is really a headache in this case...)
Of course, the above procedure should be tested again. I remember that 12.1 broke this at some time, and hopefully this was fixed meanwhile. If it doesn't work, it should be handled in Bugzilla.
I don't know of the current situation of Korean language. Hopefully someone can follow it up...
I know we have kr locale and translations. so may be I can add their l18n team coordinator to this thread?
Yeah, that sounds good.
I'm sorry but he left no email. and his bio is in Korean which I don't know.
do we still need to drag him in, given korean is of a so little user database and fcitx-hangul is available?
if so, I'll drag Karl in, he's the l18n admin, an coordinator must have an email.
OK, thanks. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org