Vote me in! On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Marcel Kühlhorn wrote:

On Sun, 2012-12-02 at 12:41 -0700, Andy (anditosan) wrote:

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In preparation for the upcoming wallpaper contest, it is necessary to define who is currently participating of this mailing list and is a member of the team. The idea being to create a voting committee to participate during the wallpaper contest.

Please reply with a "me!, yes!, I'm in!" and so on so that we can make sure we have our team participate accordingly.

Thank you and stay tuned for next week's communication about the contest.

Andy (anditosan)

Me! Me! I'm in!

-- Marcel Kühlhorn freenode: tux93

Have a lot of fun!

-- God bless ! Scott DuBois www.ROGUEHORSE.com openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Richard Brown wrote:

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"Andy (anditosan)" 02/12/2012 19:41 >>> Please reply with a "me!, yes!, I'm in!" and so on so that we can make sure we have our team participate accordingly.

"me!, yes!, I'm in!"

But..I'm not sure why I should need to be.

With a name like a 'voting committee', it sounds like you want to create some form of selection panel who will be deciding, or at least designating, a chosen design for your wallpaper contest

If the only criteria for membership to this committee is a ping on a mailing list, then I urge you to reconsider and having public voting for your contest.

I mean this with absolutely no disrespect intended for many of the people on this mailing list, we're all passionate people who have opinions on what is right or wrong for the future of openSUSE artwork, but I do not think our involvement in this mailing list automatically grants us the privilege to consider our opinions better than the wider audience of openSUSE users who would normally participate in our polling.

If your goal was to make a more 'exclusive' group to deciding on the artwork, I think you'd need to decide on a proper set of criteria, assess individuals capability to make selections based on artistic and practical merits, but I'd question the benefit of such an approach. First, it feels to me like the addition of a bureaucratic barrier to the process, which would run against the Projects guiding principles for open development, peer review, responsible maintainership and individual responsibility.

At it's heart, I feel openSUSE (like most open source projects) is a meritocracy. "those who do, decide"

I favour a selection process where artists produce high quality drafts that we can post publically and give an opportunity for the public, us guys in the mailing lists, and everyone else with an opinion to voice it. Once that feedback has been gathered, it's down to the artists willing to put the time in to make something not only pretty, but workable.

One would hope the 'final draft' after this stage reflects as much of the feedback at possible, but we may need to make radical changes. This might be due to technical, legal or other considerations, but I can also see other practical issues occurring. It's hard for an artist to complete someone elses vision, and I can certainly foresee situations where new artists need to step in to make sure we actually have the right artwork, at the right time, for the distribution release. This is no problem in the meritocratic approach followed by the rest of the project, but would be harder to comfortably do with a hierarchical 'decision by committee' approach like I fear might be what you're proposing here Andi.

It then falls to packagers take the art produced and work with the artists to turn it into a bundle that can actually work as part of the distribution, and ultimately, the openSUSE release team who need to accept those changes into Factory.

Yes, this approach isn't perfect - It sometimes means duplication of effort, 'time wasted' on designs that never see submission in the final distribution - such a fate struck me during the cycle for openSUSE 11.4, but that learning process is a big part of why I'm still around here contributing to artwork, so I can really see the merit in sticking with it, even when it hasn't always worked out for me.

- Richard ilmehtar on IRC

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I am considering that. Please wait for more news as indicated in the email. It is a measure to organize the many submissions that we will get. Thank you Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Marcus Moeller wrote:

Dear Andy.

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Please reply with a "me!, yes!, I'm in!" and so on so that we can make sure we have our team participate accordingly.

"me!, yes!, I'm in!"

But..I'm not sure why I should need to be.

With a name like a 'voting committee', it sounds like you want to create some form of selection panel who will be deciding, or at least designating, a chosen design for your wallpaper contest

If the only criteria for membership to this committee is a ping on a mailing list, then I urge you to reconsider and having public voting for your contest.

I mean this with absolutely no disrespect intended for many of the people on this mailing list, we're all passionate people who have opinions on what is right or wrong for the future of openSUSE artwork, but I do not think our involvement in this mailing list automatically grants us the privilege to consider our opinions better than the wider audience of openSUSE users who would normally participate in our polling.

If your goal was to make a more 'exclusive' group to deciding on the artwork, I think you'd need to decide on a proper set of criteria, assess individuals capability to make selections based on artistic and practical merits, but I'd question the benefit of such an approach. First, it feels to me like the addition of a bureaucratic barrier to the process, which would run against the Projects guiding principles for open development, peer review, responsible maintainership and individual responsibility.

At it's heart, I feel openSUSE (like most open source projects) is a meritocracy. "those who do, decide"

I favour a selection process where artists produce high quality drafts that we can post publically and give an opportunity for the public, us guys in the mailing lists, and everyone else with an opinion to voice it. Once that feedback has been gathered, it's down to the artists willing to put the time in to make something not only pretty, but workable.

One would hope the 'final draft' after this stage reflects as much of the feedback at possible, but we may need to make radical changes. This might be due to technical, legal or other considerations, but I can also see other practical issues occurring. It's hard for an artist to complete someone elses vision, and I can certainly foresee situations where new artists need to step in to make sure we actually have the right artwork, at the right time, for the distribution release. This is no problem in the meritocratic approach followed by the rest of the project, but would be harder to comfortably do with a hierarchical 'decision by committee' approach like I fear might be what you're proposing here Andi.

It then falls to packagers take the art produced and work with the artists to turn it into a bundle that can actually work as part of the distribution, and ultimately, the openSUSE release team who need to accept those changes into Factory.

Yes, this approach isn't perfect - It sometimes means duplication of effort, 'time wasted' on designs that never see submission in the final distribution - such a fate struck me during the cycle for openSUSE 11.4, but that learning process is a big part of why I'm still around here contributing to artwork, so I can really see the merit in sticking with it, even when it hasn't always worked out for me.

- Richard ilmehtar on IRC

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

I am considering that. Please wait for more news as indicated in the email. It is a measure to organize the many submissions that we will get.

Hmm, you are blaming ppl for not doing things in public, but create facts behind closed doors, too?

I got the same feeling concerning the KDE Plasma theme. The guys who are working on the produkt port, have created a few news items about their work on the planet (so it was some kind of public). Of course these kind of things should be announced here, too. I am sure they are aware of that now.

Afterwards you created a blog post, stating that you have also been working on a Plasma theme. I was not aware of that until you posted that on the planet, so the same goes to you.

I think you are taking this the wrong way and it is the same with Richard. Everytime there is something that I share that they didn't know about, I get accused of being private and so on. Please stop the dot linking here. Unfortunately, I don't share my life on the internet for others to scrutinize. The plasma theme I made is a personal project. I only asked for comments on it to make it better. Hopefully in the future I will release it on kde-look.org. But that is the only intention I have for that. As far the theme made by the KDE team, they announced it after I mentioned to them that it was better to make this public. Theirs is a team initiative that the artwork team was not aware of. We also need to exercise patience. Taking so many ideas out of context because we are not willing to wait on an answer causes problems. Please wait until there is more information on the subject of the wallpaper contest. Andy (anditosan)

Could we please agree on transparent communication and clear and open strategy planning?

Greets Marcus

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On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Richard Brown wrote:

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Andres Silva 03/12/2012 15:57 >>> I think you are taking this the wrong way and it is the same with Richard.

Andi, if I'm taking this the 'wrong way', then please clarify. What are you intentions with the voting committee? What is their role going to be? what am I volunteering to be a part of? These are things I would normally expect to know before committing myself to involvement in something

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We also need to exercise patience. Taking so many ideas out of context because we are not willing to wait on an answer causes problems. Please wait until there is more information on the subject of the wallpaper contest.

I hope this doesn't come off as preachy, but reading how this thread is developing I feel compelled to point out the openSUSE project has a set of guiding principles, which you can find here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles

It's a stated value of the project that we value openness and transparency, in particular relevance to this situation, "openly answering questions, providing all relevant information, and actively keeping all involved parties informed"

I understand you have a different way of doing things Andi, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for Marcus, I, and anyone else, to request answers and all relevant information about your plans for a wallpaper competition and voting committee.

I struggle to see how you expect things to work, and I patiently await any light you can shed on your plans. Without this information, the only outcomes I can infer have led to the concerns I've already outlined in this thread.

Regards

Richard Brown ilmehtar on IRC

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You will receive more information soon. Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org