Mailinglist Archive: yast-devel (127 mails)

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Re: [yast-devel] Adding snapper/libstorage to Jenkins
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:57:53 +0100
Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On 05.11.2015 11:11, Josef Reidinger wrote:
Why not use osc for building it for several distributions?

That's fine for a great number of users, but some of them will always
want to build their own - because of the Open Source spirit, because
they think it's educational for them, or because they feel safer that
way (considerably less risk for getting malware through the back
door).


rake is used mainly for tarball creation and running osc, so just
document that for manual creation of tarball you should run
package output of `git ls-files . | grep -v \\.gitignore`

No, not document some arcane command, simply provide the command that
does it. And IMHO we can only realistically provide it if that's the
command we use on an everyday basis; otherwise bit rot will set in
fast.

My problem is that current command require whole complex development
environment. Just try to visit some of your collegues that do e.g.
packaging of perl scripts and let them try to create package for
snapper. I think you will see that installing many various packages is
not so funny just to create one tarball.



You speak about special tools, but other distros also use approach
of metadata + tarball, so you think they are happy that they need to
create simple f***ing tarball bunch of development libraries?

That's the same for all non-trivial software: They all need some
kinds of libraries the host system has to provide. But they might
even want to provide their own version (or simply an older, but maybe
more stable version) of any of them.

Sorry, but which non-trivial software require to create archive many
kind of libraries in host system? We are talking about creating
archive, not about compilation, verification, validation or others.


This is their choice, and again, it's the spirit of Open Source to
let them make that choice.

Yeah, but choices have consequences. If you set up pub and say that
taking food away you have to bring your own box, duck tape, salt,
pepper and spoon. Try estimate how many people take away food. And for
me it is same for snapper here. You just want to create tarball on your
own.



...
And last but not least, gems and ruby is available on all
distributions, can be simple installed and is well documented, so I
do not see it as special obstacle.

Unless some people choose not to use that technology at all (for
ideological reasons). For example, I always gave all Mono based
software a wide berth. I simply didn't want it on my system.

There is a psychological threshold when people don't use your
software. If it delivers great value, if it's useful to the user, if
it's a joy to use, people want it. If it's a PITA to build, they
won't build it, even if it's the coolest and most useful software in
the world. And if that affects people who want to build their own in
every case (e.g., Gentoo fans), you'll loose those potential users,
thus shrinking your user base for no good reason.

I can use same reasons for not forcing to use tons of software and
libraries just to create tarball that can be used to build package on
other distributions.



BTW there are projects that use cmake,
scons, qmake and others, and to be honest I found ruby better
scripting language then m4, cmake or qmake language.

None of m4, cmake or qmake are general purpose scripting languages.
m4 is a macro processor (that was pressed into service for the
Autotools), cmake and qmake are purpose-built make tools.

Rake is a mixture. It's still kind of Ruby, but OTHO it's some kind
of build tool. It's hard to compare. Rake certainly does have its
place for Ruby development, but IMHO it's a misuse to use it for
everything just because it's there.

You know, if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a
nail. Let's not go there. ;-)

I am fine if someone create similar tool for submission in plain shell
or anything else, but currently there is not such tool, so we reuse
existing one. For me big advantage of rake/ruby is readability and easy
code sharing, but in general tasks done by it, can be done by simple
shell script as it is just invocation of shell commands like git, osc
and tar )

compare
https://github.com/libyui/libyui-qt-pkg/blob/master/Rakefile ( one
liner saying nothing unstandard ) with

https://github.com/openSUSE/snapper/blob/master/configure.ac or
https://github.com/openSUSE/snapper/blob/master/Makefile.repo ( which
is kind of top level one, but not completelly )

Josef



Kind regards

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