Mailinglist Archive: yast-devel (177 mails)

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Re: [yast-devel] Features of the YCP successor
  • From: "Duncan Mac-Vicar P." <dmacvicar@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 11:57:52 +0100
  • Message-id: <4D4A8A30.5050008@suse.de>
On 02/03/2011 11:28 AM, Martin Kudlvasr wrote:
> I tried the printer module and in handles printer sharing and behaviour.
But not drivers.

If you click on add, it allows you to select drivers.

I use network to configure several tap interfaces and connect them by
bridge. It's great for virtualbox and soooo easy to do in yast.

Oh yes, this is true. I also did this. But this is a developer's usecase, not a desktop user one.

Package Management? See how beautifully integrated package management
is in the KDE-4 user-mode control center. No root, simple interface.
For something more advanced you have zypper, for something more
friendly there is an appstore coming.
Cool! Are there similar tools for Gnome, console (ncurses), LXDE ?

Who cares. Desktop is not about ncurses, and including LXDE means you need to care about GNUStep, Etoile, etc. The list is infinite.

Console users have zypper. Other desktop should write their own stuff on top of PackageKit, just like KDE and Gnome did.

(note: for console you have pkcon as non-root as well)

Yes, once you focus just on a Desktop, your arguments make sense. But
openSUSE so far is "universal". Once there is a split to openSUSE
Desktop and openSUSE Server, there are many ways to optimize. This can
be just part of the installation - do you want typical Desktop, Server,
Expert's system ? The package selection should reflect that.

This is why I see openSUSE as Debian, and not as Ubuntu. It is a collection of packages without much coherence, but not a "product".

I understand your point - who needs Infrared device, Joystick attached
to a sound card, DSL, ISDN, Modem these days? Many modules just display
contents from some configuration file (fstab, hostname) without any
higher abstraction.
So the service they essentially provide is "syntax checking" (without a
choice to override).

Yes. The best configuration at all is the automatic/nonexistant one.

To evolve to a more usable state I would suggest:
for experts - syntax (& semantics) aware editor of config files
for novices - a (much) higher abstraction (yes, it's hard)

For novices, if you need any configuration at all, it should be based on his knowledge. I remember mysql configuration:

"What will you use this MySQL server for?"
(o) Development environment
( ) LAN server
( ) Heavy loaded server facing the internet

Depending on the selection, all tunings, security decisions, etc were made for you.

A colleague also showed me a backup tool he wrote. I was surprised by some UI decisions we usually fail when the target is a newbie:

Excludes: instead of wildcards, there where checkboxes with "Music", "Documents" "Videos".
Frequency and versions kept: just a slidebar between Paranoid and not paranoid.

Yes, YaST is not that useful for novices on Desktop anymore. So let's
make it a tool for experts.

I agree. Everything that is not for experts should work out of the box or configured once by asking a few questions.

--
Duncan Mac-Vicar P. - Novell® Making IT Work As One™
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg)

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