Mailinglist Archive: yast-devel (122 mails)

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Re: [yast-devel]
  • From: Stefan Hundhammer <sh@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:52:50 +0100
  • Message-id: <>
On Friday 07 December 2007 14:50, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
The idea is to create a new Pattern Selector in the Installation :)

Why? In what way did the requirements change from not so long ago when we made
the current pattern selector (after extensive talks with product and project
managers and usability)?

And if we want a change there, why not do it at the place where it makes
sense: At the dedicated PatternSelector widget that we have for just this

This Pattern Selector (or rather Software/Task Selector) could replace and
unify more dialogs in one:

* Unify with Standard Pattern selector in detailed software selection

Write something different that does less than the existing version and then
unify that new different thing with the existing one does not make very much
sense to me.

* Unify with Desktop Selection dialog (needs a face-lifting)

I don't see very many things in common with the desktop selection. Unless, of
course, we strip all kinds of features from the pattern selector to make it
as simplistic as the desktop selection.

The pattern selector lets the user choose any number of software patterns.
Some of them may have dependencies to other patterns. Some of them may even
conflict with other patterns. Dependency resolution is required here.

The desktop selection lets the user choose a main (!) desktop. The main
purpose of this is to know what display manager (KDM, GDM, XDM, none) to use.
The question by itself should not be there in the first place; we all know
that the background were mostly to avoid trench wars between the hardcore KDE
and GNOME advocats. At this place during installation, there is no reasonable
way a (novice) user can answer the question in any informed manner; he has to
make a choice mostly based on gut feelings. But since all that is a bit too
complicated to confront the user with during installation, we chose to call
it "desktop selection".

In truth, it's more complicated, and we might want to ask the user
differently, maybe like this:

Select Desktops

[ ] KDE

Select Graphical Login Manager

( ) KDE (KDM)
( ) Basic X11 (XDM)
( ) No Graphical Login

This would be a lot closer to the truth. In fact, all we ask now is the second
question, but many users are not aware of that; it's not at all that obvious.
There are a great many users out there who don't even know that a GNOME
application will also run on KDE and vice versa (just listen in to the
freenode #suse IRC channel). And there are even more who don't know that you
can install both major desktops in parallel, even though you have to choose
one login manager.

If we want any change in the desktop selection (and IMHO it would deserve a
change to the better), we should go this way rather than try to unify things
that really are different.

* Add new High-level Software/Task Selector that would solve software
  selection from the user's view: I want to use Internet, Do some office
  work, Graphics...

That's the idea behind patterns. If our current patterns don't allow users to
do that, we should rethink if the way we use them is right.

Stefan Hundhammer <sh@xxxxxxx> Penguin by conviction.
YaST2 Development
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Nürnberg, Germany
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