Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 11/02/13 21:11, Linda Walsh escribió:
YAST belongs to openSuSE..
I wanted to upgrade my perl, but yast in 12.1 claims it requires perl5.14 and won't work unless I downgrade.
This never used to be the case.
Because Yast had and continue to have bugs, one of those bugs was the lack of strict dependency of perl versions.
I've Never had problems with yast's interactions w/perl and I'm always running non-standard versions. That goes back 10 years... It's not until you add the version numbers that I have problems and things don't work. I don't call that dumb luck --- ensuring that it won't work, though, that's sabotage... There's a been a bad trend in computers that's grown over the past several years, and that's to default to broken, rather than giving the user anything. There are some security scenarios (many) where that is appropriate, but on a home system -- it's usually not. I the system won't come up due to deliberate sabotage in version locking, then I can't fix it. Before 12.1, I used to be able to boot off of the 11.1 rescue disk (and this was a change in glibc -- I'm not saying the trend toward breakage is unique to suse). When computers first came out, the people who programmed them TRIED to make them friendly and tried to make them helpful. A PL/I compiler back in my student days used to make lots of assumptions about what you meant if you got wrong syntax ... IN PROGRAMS -- and 90% of the time it was right!.. Even in the face of errors, after it applied what it thought were the right corrections (trivial things like missing semicolons and such), it would attempt execution -- and you usually got a working (for some definition of such) program. Now, computers are being constructed to be hostile to the users -- be unfriendly and difficult to use. Just like this -- I can't mix and match versions like I have for over 10 years.. (within thought out reasons...but I majored in computer science, so not average user)... you are taking away the flexibility of unix. it was always a good and bad thing that rm -fr / just went off and did it -- you figured not to do things like that. Now the trend is to disable user control and flexibility -- turn them back into passive receivers.
Can this be fixed (obviously not overnight, but some policy needs to be reverted)...
Nope, at least not until perl provides properly versioned DSOs upstream. The fact that in your experiment applications worked with multiple versions is pure luck.
--- That is pure bull... Gvim has been built that way for several years on Windows and has had no major problems. Now if you have linked built code that you expect to be "hard linked" at runtime, those references can be a problem, but if you use the dynamically loaded interface, it's a lower common denominator, but it works. The Vim make/build file supports building with run time libraries but suse chooses not to use it. Vim does the same thing with python and the other scripting languages it supports. It's not dumb luck -- it was designed that way. please NOTE -- this is for the dynamicly, run-time loaded library, not the one that is autolinked by 'ldd'. Are we talking about the same thing? linux people don't seem to get run-time dynamic linking that much. Unix people did it -- and windows does it "delayed loading libraries"...but linux -- not so much...and it's a shame. those systems that use such are generally more flexible and resilient to problems in the field -- because they know enough not to expect things, but are written to check for things being there -- and if not, then not using them. Problem is programming is getting harder and harder as time goes on, and programmers are continuing to lower the bar for what they will allow and produce -- you want user friendly? You want it to correct your mistakes and just work? It's certainly a bad time computer users/owner... capitalists figured out that making software that worked well and long and didn't need upgrades was bad for business -- requiring a compute replacement of all software with every release? Perl is especially bad for you to harsh on -- they are SO conservative about backwards compatibility -- I'd love to see what some of the yast issues were that regard version issues. They maintain strict backwards compatibility for ages...and change slowly if at all. What parts of yast had problems? --- that would have been problems if you did run-time dynamic loading? As for perl's latest build scripts -- it **warned** me of using the generic libperl.so name that's been used for years -- BECAUSE of the minority of people that have problems. I'm frustrated because when these things break, I usually know how to fix them -- but when everything is interlocked and taking out 1 piece causes everything to break... That's a setup for major pain. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org