JB2 wrote:
On 15 July 09, Dan Goodman wrote:
... I am still using this distro, but I have become increasingly reluctant to recommend it to potential new Linux users, at least until a few of these quality of experience issues get resolved.
Is having a few more testers for a package worth alienating potential and current users?
I think not....
Quality NOW should always be the first point of reference for anything done with, for and by this distro...without it, all else is meaningless and self-defeating, as you will end up with only a small core of dedicated users, with others, current and future users, going RH or Ubuntu?
A year ago I would have told my technically proficient friends who were considering Linux to go with Suse. Now I waffle -- tell them what I am using and why, but feel that I have to point out that certain decisions and knowledge need to be present up front, in order for the distro to work well for the average new user.
Just because openSuSE usually doesn't come in a box, doesn't mean that the "out of box experience" is irrelevant. Instead, it is almost everything -- first impressions are hard to overcome.
You cannot sacrifice quality now in order to obtain better quality in the future. If you do, you are risking the future, rather than building towards it.
Well said, Dan. I too find myself not really pushing SuSE like I once used to. Two years ago, it's all I talked about when anything 'computers' came up in conversation. Now....I say if they want to use Linux, they should try to find an older (10.3 or older) version of SuSE (openSUSE for you anal types out there) or I send them to distrowatch.com and tell them to look for something that looks like it might suit them, then explain the same points you and Pete and quite a few others have brung up in this thread.
As an afterthought, I work professionally with SuSE Linux Enterprise Servers (SLES) 8,9 and 10, as well as "the other guy" (RH), as well as some "unbreakable" Linux, and find SLES to be far and away the best option in large-scale environments. And while there is SLED (Desktop), it requires $, so you lose one of the major distinctions from Windows if you recommend that route. Further, there needs to be a core group of individuals who are a bit ahead of the curve (openSuSE community), who can and do serve as a point of trust and reference for would-be new adopters...so if their experience declines, the front-end that leads to wider adoption becomes weakened, leading to a weakening of the entire effort. OPTIONAL EXAMPLE: You can skip this if you don't want to read more. But it gives what I think is a good example from PC history about how this has bitten other vendors. My example is Gateway, but there could be others easily. My first GW was in about 1990. Many people who adopted PC's over the next several years came to me for recommendations, and switched to purchasing GW after hearing my experiences and recommendations. Then, after I had archived a lot of material on a nice Colorado tape drive I had bought with my first system, I tried to buy a replacement with the same drive. Gateway's response: we found out that only a few people used tapedrives, so we have dropped it as even an option you can purchase. End results: I purchased a different machine. I never did get a satisfactory solution to my tape issues. And I stopped recommending Gateway, because of their unwillingness to take care of the needs of their technically oriented customers, as well as because of other attitude changes leading to a general decline in technical differentiation from their competition. And a few years later, they were in deep trouble, primarily because former repeat customers became non-customers, and led others away with them. Not just because of my experience, but because they began to get a reputation as just another vendor, and one who didn't get it, at that. I don't want to see that happen to this distro. But it must take care of its users such as yourself, David Rankin, Peter Nikolic, jdd, etc. (apologies if you are someone else who belongs in this category but who I may have omitted.) If the power-users become disgruntled, then the vast majority of new users begin to drift away from, instead of towards, this distro. And to whoever it was that suggested if I didn't like the install and upgrade experience in SuSE, I should switch to Gentoo and have some "real fun" -- at least with Gentoo I would have a community that was focused on trying to attract and retain users, and was willing to listen to their user base. Or so I have heard... and if not Gentoo, there are other communities that don't say "like it or leave it" -- "my way or the highway" whenever someone questions their decisions or their designs. OpenSuSE seems to be somewhere in the middle. But that is a step back from where it was, and the slope gets slippier as you get further down it. If the distro creates a few mistakes that are prominent, on the tail of some that have occurred, the slope will get quite slippy very quickly. Dan Notice: This communication, including attachments, may contain confidential or proprietary information to be conveyed solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or if you otherwise received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this e-mail, including attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org