On Mon April 13 2009 3:48:47 pm ne... wrote:
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 23:46, Richard <ricreig@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon April 13 2009 2:06:43 pm ne... wrote: <snip>
A happy user of oS11 with KDE 4.2.2 and who does not update from OBS.
I, for one, am *very* happy that you are happy with and use KDE 4.2.2 sucessfully. I, however am not and resent it being forced on me. Thanks, but I do not see how it is being forced on you. You 'reformatted' my post fairly accuratly, but in so doing, you restated the actions that 'force' me to install something I don't want in its' present state of development OR to stagnate the rest of my system. You did offer a 3rd option, the OBS which has its' problems.
First, the KDE devs are making changes to the OBS that modify earlier versions of KDE with KDE4 code. Second, There is no one responsible for fixing changes made by 'virtaully anybody' that break existing code/libraries/packages. Third, many, even most of the users are not programmers and lack essential troubleshooting skills and Fourth, even for the Cummunity members that are or can program, virtually only the Devs have any real understanding of the code in the OBS that will be 'maintained' by Community and because of poor or no documentation in the code or elsewhere, User patches submitted to the OBS run the real risk of inducing subtle logic errors that often have far-reaching side effects. Lastly, no one really expects the Devs to 'maintain' KDE3.x, just to quit destoying it for those that need or want it, warts and all.
I've taken the liberty of reformat the very long lines of your post.
I resent the mentality that KDE devs can force me to forego updating my current DISTRO without losing the functionalities of the software I want to use including my choice of 3.5.x version of KDE.
If by KDE dev you mean the oS devs working on KDE, then your choice is to help maintain KDE3 in OBS. The oS devs have made their choice, at least the option still remains for you to get KDE3.
If the OBS copy of 3.5.x were left untainted by the development of v4.x, that might be somewhat viable, but what is in the OBS as 3.5 is 'tainted' with replacement code that has been modified for 4.x compatibility at the expense of compatibility with 3.x except in name only in some cases. OBS is NOT a viable solution at this time.
I will continue to evaluate 4.x+, but I resent being told that I *have* to use it or lose what I already have and sucessfully use and like and especially resent that programs/packages that use 3.5.x often are incompatible with 4.x and may not be upgradeable because *their* devs don't have the time to make the radical changes required by KDE 4.x. They might have 'day jobs' too.
Then you are going to ave to step up and start compiling stuff yourself. Instead of being reactive, you are going to have to be proactive.
I do, often, but not everyone has that ability and don't have the skills to be 'proactive' as you suggest. They just need 'leave well enough alone' mentalities to prevail somewhat better. No one is asking the Devs to stop developing, just not to do it at the expense of those that don't want to play that game.
I resent being unable to upgrade from 11.0 or 11.1 to 11.2+ which fixes bugs in the earlier kernels, drivers, utilities, etc. because if I do, I lose too much else. I shouldn't have to switch my desktop to Gnome or other DE to be able to use my current choice of DE. Since KDE3 will be in OBS for oS11.2 if the community that needs it steps up, you should be able to do a base install and add KDE later on. That is one choice you have. If the community does not step up to maintain KDE3, you can always download the tarbols and then compile and install them.
As already indicated, the last 'untainted' version of KDE3.5.x is no longer in the OBS with key features/utilities like Konqueror for instance, having been replaced by the KDE4.x replacement of the same name. There is nothing wrong with PORTING KDE4.x code to be compatible with 3.x, just keep it separate in case the Port is undesireable for some.
<peptalk> Those wanting KDE3 for oS11.2 and newer may not like the choices they are being given. However, the way things stand, it looks you are going to have to take a proactive stance, step up and help maintain KDE3 in OBS if you want to have it. The oS devs have made their position clear, now it is up to the community to do something positive for themselves. </peptalk>
ne...
You have restated the problem very well. It is only the solution is not good because it is already comprimised and lacks adequate responsibility and quality control considerations. However, we are not far apart in our understanding of the problem. --- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org