On Sat, 29 Dec, 2007 at 12:20:49 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>
I can certainly see an application having a dependency for certain things in the basic desktop system. I cannot see why the desktop system would have a dependency on an obscure add-on type of application to function. That is bass ackwards! Guess I just don't understand. I'm not a software designer/engineer. Maybe there is some logical reason, somewhere, somehow.
There sure is.
Then again, maybe not. Take this example of a newly installed 10.3 KDE system with misc. multimedia stuff installed (from packman et al): "openSUSE update" keeps telling me there's "New software updates available" open it up, click 'details', I get; (selected) amarok "fixes to improve..." "recommended" version=4492-0 (unselected) openmotif22libs "64bit package added..." "optional" version=4540-0 Now; I'm messing about, copying misc. configs from backups etc. - setting desktop preferences, doing the usual personalization stuff. Plenty of times logged out/back in, system rebooted for whatever other reasons. Every time I'm logged back in, the updater tells me there's 'new' updates available. Many times I told the updater to 'update', and everytime it comes back with 'new updates' status. At this point I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing, especially since I don't much care for Amarok anyway. So then I start thinking about just uninstalling the thing, so I can have a *reliable* status from the 'updater'. Incidentally it's around the same time I check the mail and see this thread. Uninstalling Amarok; a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok error: Failed dependencies: libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-xine-1.4.7-37.4.i586 libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586 amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-xine-1.4.7-37.4.i586 amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586 ...right. Of course there are deps, but 'doubles'?. Let's check them out; a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok-yauap a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok-xine Hmmm nice - this should be fixed in a jiffy; a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-xine a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-yauap error: Failed dependencies: amarok_engine >= %version is needed by (installed) amarok-1.4.7-37.4.i586 ...what? Is that circular? a13:/home/jon # rpm --test -e amarok error: Failed dependencies: libamarok.so.0 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586 amarok = 1.4.7 is needed by (installed) amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4.i586 OK, but now we aren't 'seeing double' at least. a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatrequires amarok amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4 a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatrequires amarok-yauap no package requires amarok-yauap ...great! Let's just uninstall yauap, and be done with it; a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-yauap error: Failed dependencies: amarok_engine >= %version is needed by (installed) amarok-1.4.7-37.4.i586 Not. a13:/home/jon # rpm -q --whatprovides amarok_engine amarok-yauap-1.4.7-37.4 Impressive: amarok-yauap needs amarok_engine amarok_engine is provided by amarok-yauap Circular indeed! a13:/home/jon # rpm -ql amarok-yauap /opt/kde3/lib/kde3/libamarok_yauap-engine_plugin.la /opt/kde3/lib/kde3/libamarok_yauap-engine_plugin.so /opt/kde3/share/services/amarok_yauap-engine_plugin.desktop /opt/kde3/share/services/amarok_yauap-mp3_install.desktop ...well "I don't need those"; a13:/home/jon # rpm -e --force amarok-yauap rpm: only installation, upgrading, rmsource and rmspec may be forced ...right, what I meant to say was; a13:/home/jon # rpm -e --nodeps amarok-yauap Nice. No errors. Let's get on with it; a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok Done. Now, just for good measure; a13:/home/jon # rpm -qa | grep -i amarok amarok-libvisual-1.4.7-37.4 a13:/home/jon # rpm -e amarok-libvisual a13:/home/jon # rpm -qa | grep -i amarok *really* done.
There is a bunch of stuff I would like to get rid of also. Including kpowersave. When I see the dependency hell to remove something I don't want, I just sigh, shrug my shoulders, wonder how that could possibly be, and thank the lord that we now have these huge hard drives that will carry the bloat.
And... how many hundreds of megabytes will removing that package save? Is it worth the time and effort spent?
It's not so much the megabytes, rather it's about system consistency. I'm aware that packaging errors happen, but these should be confronted and solved rather than be 'swept under the rug'. And a blanket "just uninstall the whole 'selection'" isn't really a proper solution IMHO. I *want* multimedia, just not the specific application. Now, if that application (or one of it's 'supporters') has a circular dependency that prevents the 'updater' from performing *it's* duties, then that application MUST DIE, and I'll consider the time killing it well spent. MO /jon -- YMMV -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org