On Thursday 28 Apr 2005 14:55, Colin Carter wrote:
On Thursday 28 April 2005 15:43, JD. Brown wrote:
An interesting article about v9.3 to be found at www.theinquirer.net. The article is titled, "SuSE 9.3 fails home-use test".
Yeah, The author to that story is a complete Windows spud. :) He gives no good hard facts, It's just matter of opinion.
JD
Well now, it appears to me that most replies/comment from the Linux gurus have been along the above lines: that is, comments without substance. How about the following "fact" which the author quotes. It appears to me, from my experience with Linux, that the following paragraph is true: Quote: And don't bother trying to look at the installation read-me notes either. They are just advertisements for the idiots who designed the software and tend to go into great details about the licence agreement, which, as most users tell you, isn't as important as getting the software going. End quote. I don't agree with the 'idiots' dig, but it is true that most ReadMe files contain about what he says.
Let us hear some technical criticism about what the author said. Remember, he did not say it was difficult for a Linux guru; he said it was not for the average user who is used to an easy to install system.
Where do you start with this article (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22756)? Just a few things that leapt out when I read and dismissed it a couple of days ago: - No recent PC takes an hour to install SUSE - I have installed on ancient K6/450s in less than 90 minutes. So what was he using? I doubt he installed on the same machine he quotes a Windows intall-time of 45 minutes for, because Windows actually takes longer to install on any PC on which I have installed both. If not, the install-time comparison is misleading. - Anyone who has installed SUSE knows that the slideshow changes, and you get even more feedback if you change to the package view. So how come he thought nothing was happening? Seems odd, unless there was something weird about his machine, or the method he was using to install. - "Downloads core components". Say what? 9.3 comes with a bootload of stuff on CDs and DVDs - no downloading required. So what does he mean here? You don't get an option to download security updates until later in the install, so it can't be those. So is he using 9.2 for a 9.3 review??? Or some 9.3 hack (maybe a BitTorrent that someone has put up, because FTP downloads aren't available yet)??? If so, the complaints are hardly relevant, since the average user is going to be using CDs. - How could something be downloaded in the middle of a reboot? And how could it be the wrong OS if you have already elected to install Linux? Is there some other thing in the install mix here? And if he means that the install will over-write a Windows partition, this is absolutely impossible unless you wilfully ignore the "going to start partitioning now" warning. I have NEVER had this happen, except once in 1998 when I was new to Linux and didn't know what I was doing (I wasn't too clear about what partitions were, either....) So is he asleep, or what exactly does he think he is doing? I even wondered if he was trying to install SUSE *from* Windows (as if it were a Windows app). - Very occasionally I have had instances with multiple hard drives in the box where the mid-install reboot doesn't work, because SUSE gets mixed up about which drive is which. But the vast majority of installs will just reboot fine. What is the second reboot he mentions? You install the base system, get a reboot, install the rest, and then X gets restarted to log intothe new install. Does he mean the X restart? But this happens automatically, and there is no icon to press. So what stage is his system at here? - The list of software he mentions here may be the security updates, but he mentions upgrades again later, so it may not be. If this is some flavour of YOU, and he's saying that YOU offers boxes to tick etc instead of doing everything automatically, this may be a valid point, but it may also be a valid point that in places where you don't have broadband the Windows "download everything" option may be undesirable too. The two views aren't discussed because he seems to be approaching the "review" with his mind already made up. - Beagle is being developed by Novell developers, IIRC, but "flagship product" seems a bit excessive. And it is not an essential for running your desktop, but ... - Perhaps he was indeed at YOU, and the problem is that he was expecting Beagle to be listed, and it wasn't (I don't have 9.3 yet, so I'm not sure whether it is installed by default). So he seems in that case to be confusing security updates with program installation. Hmm. I think no matter how new a usr he is, he could be expected to read the labels on the icons, window headings, and so on. - As regards the "complex" upgrade (security update?) process, clicking OK is usually ... OK. I suppose SUSE could have an "express" option in YOU which makes a default set of selections and does everything for you, but is someone who needs that really going to be experimenting with Linux, and if he is, will he be the sort to stay with it, or the sort that fiddles about with it for a couple of hours, gets a bit lost, and then tells his mates at the pub "I tried that Linux thing last night, but you know, it's nowhere near as easy to use as Windows"? - You could always choose between a range of desktops on SUSE, not just on "this version". And no telepathy is needed - just the desire to click on a a drop-down list - but maybe he was too distracted for that. - The media issue is an ongoing one - it is fair to say that this needs to be dealt with in a more elegant way. How that is done is the question. I also think that there should be a message to the user telling them *why* things are being done this way, ie that industry groups are hostile to free and open-source software. - The points about installation seem to show confusion between installing from a source tarball and installing from an rpm. It is true that a new user might not be aware of the distinction, and that this would be new territory for them, but surely they might be expected to read around a bit, since this is "not Kansas any more". The SUSE printed manuals, which most new users would be likely to have if they got a boxed set, would also give further help. So again, what is he working from here? And also, when moving from Win95 to Win98, and again from Win98 to WinXP, people had to learn new things. Is he saying that it is OK to expect this for Windows versions, but not for a completely different OS? It's not as if there aren't any number of Linux newby sites where these things are explained. - "Licence agreements" - er, this is the whole point of free software. But perhaps he just wants a safer, better, cheaper, more configurable, minority-langauge friendly version of Windows? Oh ... that would be Linux - with the licence agreements that keep it that way. - Is video the only thing he tried to use the PC for? Apart from it not being the easiest application area ever (you can have glitches even on Windows), I think most new users would be unlikely to move from a specialist platform like the Mac or a consumer platform like Windows just to faff around with video on a Linux box. They're more likely to use office software, browsers, etc. But there's little mention of those. (In fact - see below - this is a powerful indication that SUSE does *not* fail the home user test.) - "Hunt the installed app" disappeared a couple of SUSE iterations ago. I can't believe he didn't think of looking in the SUSE menu, where an entry for Beagle would have been found after the install. Didn't he have a look through the different menu entries, even if only for curiosity? It could be, of course, that there was so much stuff there compared to a default Windows install (where you get a CD player, a browser, an email client, a text editor, and a media player, and that's all) that the intrepid chap was overwhelmed. But any new user that I have seen would have opened every one of those entries at least once - why didn't he? - "What it said on the tin" - anyone who expects to migrate to a new OS without spending a bit of time reading around is fooling themselves. In fact, most new users wouldn't be that naive (or witless). Again, if he was using some hacked version, without manuals, that may have caused problems, but the SUSE and Novell sites are hardly devoid of info. - "No useful help material" - so the browser window that opens on first login is a figment of my imagination? And the SUSE help icon on the desktop and the toolbar are mirages? - "No wizards" - Did he try setting up a printer? Or look at any of the stuff in YaST? These can always be improved, but to say they are non-existent makes me wonder how much time he spent looking around the desktop. - "Insisted on rebooting itself" - Did we perhaps hit the "Restart computer" button on the logout dialogue instead of the one marked "Turn off computer"? Did we even check by going through the sequence a couple of times? I don't think SUSE can be held responsible for fat fingers. I hope the above is enough to give you some idea that this "review" is hardly worth the electrons it is written with. The guy obviously got some version of 9.3 that did not come off a shelf somewhere, or perhaps did the install while he was working on something else and with only 1 of his 3 brain-cells engaged. It is clear that the install process does not mesh with the usual one, so either something went badly wrong or he pressed a few wrong buttons somewhere (in the belief that he was a Windows guru and could show these Linux bods a thing or two). I honestly can't imagine how he got in this state, because for at least 3 years now the SUSE install process (and that of all the big Linux distros) is so simple my 10-year old can do it. He bravely refused to do any research whatever beforehand (because after all he knew that it wouldn't be much cop compared to Windows), even though he presumably reads column-inches of stuff on new Windows versions before he starts using them. He decided to ignore distros like Linspire and Xandros and Lycoris, which are tailored for refugees who want as Windows-like a Linux as possible. However, if you ignore the bias and the lack of concentration on the job in hand (and perhaps the desire to stoke up some righteous indignation from Linux users), something very interesting emerges from between the lines. A few years ago people were happily claiming that Linux would never be widely used outside of a few geek deployments ... well OK, it would, but not for mainstream tasks on a daily basis ... well OK, but not for mission-critical stuff ... well OK, but not for high-performance stuff ... well OK, but not for the desktop ... well OK, but it won't have the hardware support ... well OK, but it won't have decent office software ... well OK, but you couldn't use it for gaming ... well OK, but multimedia is a bit of a problem. That's where we seem to be at the minute, and like all the other things, I'm sure that will get sorted out in the fulness of time - remember that other consumer operating systems have a 10-year head start and lots more marketing cash. And in that context what this review *didn't* say was as imortant as what it *did* say. It obviously installed itself (in spite of whatever he did/didn't do) in a useable state - it found all the hardware with no problem. The browser and office software worked so well that they weren't worth commenting on. It was fast and responsive, and "cleaner than Windows" (in more ways than one, if you think about it!). It even impressed with its good looks. So the real issues highlighted are (1) multimedia, and (2) unfamiliar install procedures. These are not rocket science, and depend a bit at the minute on the user being willing to at least read a few pages. So contrary to what the article suggests, the truth is actually that Linux is now frighteningly close to being a fully viable desktop for the average user, even one as reluctant as this unfortunate chap. Interesting. -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!