Yup, suse's awesome - no problems whatsoever! gimme a
break. Yes, I have everything you say on your list
working as well. Yast is great, the suse boot concept
is excellent also, not to mention Sax2 ROCKS!. I know
all about reading source documents, and no, I don't
rely on Suse books and this list to get things
working, and my complaint is not that I can't get
things working (since my first post, those issues are
resolved).
I don't rely too much on the vendor, I expect too much
from the vendor. I would love to spend more time
working on what I want to work on, rather than
cleaning up my 6.4. Again, my original point was,
that suse is worse now than before, and we are not
getting what we pay for, and when we download a SuSE
package, it should work. Believe it or not, there are
people in the world that do not kow how to untar a
file. There are also people in the world that cannot
debug their installation. If Linux is ever going to
make a big go for the desktop, there has to be better
quality control, and higher reliability software!
I don't know, maybe if I could just have the SuSE base
package and networking as an option, and download the
rest, I would be better off - wait, i can do that -
just pay for six cd's and use only one! Never mind, i
have the solution!
BTW: my kernel issue was that the source package from
kernelhq wouldn't work, not the binary version.
opposite of what you said, the binary works.
Ron
--- Purple Shirt
I got no problem with SuSE. Everything they deliver works fine. I use sendmail, nfs, nis, firewall, masq, samba, lprng, apache, mysql, x, alsa(hand configured), yast. I tend to hand configure things because......well once you learn Linux you feel good doing it just because you can =) I am curious though how YaST2 will do the nfs/nis(?) stuff.
I have to admit I never read the SuSE handbook(s). I barely ever used the documentation which can be installed on CD. I just don't find it very easy to maneuver in.
I use linuxdoc.org and google search engine and there is all you ever want. Most problems can be put into one of the program categories listed above and hence you go to that how-to. 90% of problems can be fixed through this. Otherwise you go to alsa mailing list for alsa.
SuSE comes nicely packaged and contains more stuff I ever could make use off. Due to its large content base it must be a hell of a lot of work to keep all things up to date and working.
I am sure there is always ways to improve things but it takes time. SuSe created the contact points for problems so if you don't use them then don't expect an acknowledgement.
I also would NEVER expect a precompiled kernel upgrade (2.2.14->2.2.16) to keep alsa sound functional. That is lunatic. Purely to the fact that this kernel is different from the one before how can all binaries which refer to 2.2.14 still work with 2.2.16? Alsa is picky about the kernel version so why blame this on SuSE?
Even if I run into problems with SuSE its more of a challenge to find out why there is a problem. Doesn't that make you curious? So if a packag doesn't work for me I pull down the source compile install and have it working and feel glad we ARE using open source. If we weren't we would be doomed in that case. Just because a thing doesn't work for you doesn't stop you to go and compile it yourself.
I don't expect SuSe to create their own documentation to the above mentioned programs. I mean why would SuSe go through the lengths of creating MYSQL docu if there is in-depth docu on the mysql site? Why would SuSE waste their time creating big printing documentation if the best printing doc is at www.astart.com???
I think you depend too much on one vendor(SuSE) and one mailing list instead of going out there and using all the resources available to you.
Hut ab zu SuSE,
mk
From: Ron Heron
To: Monte Milanuk , Michael Hasenstein CC: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Disgruntled Customer Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:32:56 -0700 (PDT) SuSE, and anyone else who cares about this thread....
I think we have every right to be critical of SuSE. We, after all, pay them for a product. When the product comes out half-baked (or under documented) we tend to get sour. While we as customers sometimes make brain-dead mistakes, SuSE, as a vendor does, too. Just looking at Michaels replies - how the hell were we supposed to know what suse or RH do with their kernels, unless they tell us? Does he REALLY want to stand behind me while I work on my system - for what? Do I need SuSE to tell me that the problems are MY problems? - No duh, they're my problems.
Also, SuSE wants a bug report for everything. Some of this stuff is very basic, and a low level of QC or Documentation could easily have kept people from major frustration.
Right now, the feeling I get is
"This is SuSE, you like it, you told me so, so shut up. If you got a problem, fill out a bug report, and we'll tell you that we already knew about it. We save ton's of money letting the customer QC our distributions, so we can hire egotistical people to respond to your concerns and really make you feel like an idiot."
Truthfully, I am not really bothered by the whole ordeal. I think it's rather funny seeing these kind of responses from vendors, especially in this day and age. It's kinda like the old days, when you could treat the customers poorly, because there was no alternative. I said WAS.
Oh, and SuSE, before you get started on this - I know you need details, and general statements don't help much, blah blah. But, perhaps the marketing and management folks should attend to this issue. It is clearly not an engineering problem. It is a QC, Documentation, Customer Relation, and Packaging problem. That was the reason for the generality in the original post. If I actually wanted help fixing the problems (I didn't ask for help, did I?) then I would have posted in that matter.
But, on a positive note, I did learn alot about the kernel packaging!
Ron
--- Monte Milanuk
wrote: --- Michael Hasenstein
wrote: Ron Heron wrote:
Hello, I have been using SuSE since 6.0. I
upgraded
to 6.2, and then 6.4. It seems to me,
though,
getting the system usable, and maintaining current software is becoming more and more difficult with SuSE. Maybe it is just me, but I have noticed
I cannot agree.
numerous postings where people have MAJOR
using SuSE upgrades and patches, or basic Linux
This is a ridiculous observation. Who else would
that problems post
anything here?! This mailing list is for problems and their solutions.
upgrades on a SuSE-installed system. Here are my examples:
1) Upgraded to Kernel 2.2.16, and the system was unusable. Why can't I upgrade to a new kernel
a) That is hardly a SuSE problem if you choose to
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