On 13:23 Tue 03 Aug 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 03.08.2010 00:42, Brandon Philips wrote:
On 12:29 Mon 02 Aug 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 07/30/2010 05:27 PM, Brandon Philips wrote: Instead of this mess of namespaces and information I reorganized it all into a single page on http://en.opensuse.org/Kernel with nicely organized sections drilling down from what a Kernel is to how to use the openSUSE kernel git.
And now you perfectly ignored the casual consumer of the distribution who just needs and explanation about this "Kernel" thing he keeps hearing about
But, I wrote a user level intro at the top of the page which gives a casual consumer an explanation. Did you read the intro?
and re-invented the wheel that we already invented with the Portal. Portals are the places where you would link all the pages about the Kernel together and where you would give an introduction about all the aspects of the Kernel.
What are the advantages of a Portal/box model compared to a single page with sections? I have read the Help:Portal and Help:Concept pages. The one possible advantage suggested in those pages is that Portals can be automatically generated. But, Portal:Distribution and Portal:Project look manually generated.
This avoids the namespaces, includes useful "user documentation" and doesn't draw a hard line between "users" and "contributors".
Which is one thing we explicitly want.
How do we draw a consistent line? I moved from being a user to a developer by getting in over my head little by little. Exposing someone to new information by serendipity is OK. And how does a Portal solve this issue?
Perhaps rename openSUSE: to contrib: or contributor:.
Why? And more importantly: Why now?
It is redundant and thus adds no self-discoverable information. That was my thesis when I started this thread.
We are not exactly in a phase in this project where we can easily rename a namespace.
The implementation is trivial: a mod_rewrite rule can fix this in one line. Or a script/bot could be written. Is there the will to change it though?
This is a major hassle and what advantage does it bring except the removing the redundancy of the word openSUSE? I'm sorry but this is just not enough gain to throw over the whole concept we worked on and discussed for months.
Did an announcement of this discussion go out to opensuse-announce? Could you send me the archive URL? Perhaps my mailer dropped it. In general I wouldn't care but the output of this discussion broke URLs I use everyday in bugs and email.
Not everyone is going to read the namespace rules and making discoverable norms is part of building a community that follows the rules.
Not everybody needs to. People that want to contribute significantly to the wiki have to. Everybody else does not need to care about it :)
I don't have to contribute to the Wiki. I could just throw a README.Kernel in our kernel-source.git instead. It would take less time, I would have a URL I could count on and a simple document format I could quickly edit. I want to do the right thing by using the wiki.
The search is one topic of the whole transition. Its was never the goal.
It seems to be the only user visible change due to this whole namespace mess though. That and breaking tons of URLs.
Thanks for neglecting all the hard work we have put into structure, layout, looks, standardization, content review, new content, navigation, maintainability, sustainability, categorization, extensions, etc. etc. :-/
Sure, we worked a year on breaking the search and on introducing a namespace mess. If only we would have asked you in the beginning. I'm really amazed on how everybody thinks he can treat us, people that did/do the work, like idiots. Thanks! Really!
I apologize if I my emails are abrasive, it was not my intention, but I will try to do better. I understand that a lot of hard work went into the new wiki. And it does look to be a good step forward. But, the initial launch of any project is going to have bugs and quirks. Discussing those bugs and quriks and possible solutions is part of the process.
You can read all this on Portal:Wiki which is linked from the Main page :)
I tried but you broke the URL! (Sidebar -> Help -> Create a page)!
OMG I'm not perfect! Please don't tell anyone!
I'm not perfect either. But, I brought this up as an example of the chaos all of these moves and namespace changes are causing. Is there a mediawiki special page that shows all incoming internal links to a page? Maybe a plugin could be written/installed to warn on page moves if there are existing internal links so that the mover puts up a REDIRECT. Thanks, Brandon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org