Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-translation (237 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-translation] openSUSE Weblate
Hi all,

I was travelling last days and now I am catching up with the long
discussion.

Now I must start the inline ranting...

On 13/10/15 16:57, Richard Brown wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notice the important detail: the translator works on finished versions
of the code, not on transient versions - which is why Factory can not
be translated.

Tumbleweed can be translated, indeed it should be

No, it _must_ be, because it is now one of two main distributions
produced by the openSUSE Project

You are warmly invited to provide translations, if it _must_ be.

The mantra is "whose wo do, decide"; here the "whose wo do" are the
translators, so they decide. If you are not a translator, you are not
entitled to decide because you don't do.
Or is the mantra applicable only to those that code/develop/put packages
together?

Even for Leap, we must consider that the very concept of 'frozen'
releases is becoming less and less relevant.

Has someone asked comments from translators about possible issues with
the new Leap? I have seen none, but since "those who do, decide" is
applicable also here, Leap has been decided by those who actually make
the distribution, so it was their right to decide.

Heck, even SUSE Linux Enterprise has modules which are constantly
updated and so would require constant translations

I don't care at all, unless someone knowing this spends a minute to
inform the translators about this. Wait, it is completely not my
problem, as volunteers are not supposed to translate SLE parts and
anyway their work will not be used for openSUSE when translation refers
to parts coming from SLE.

Our tools and processes need to update to face that challenge

OK.

You cannot keep on doing things the way you always used to.
This is no disrespect to the fine work you and others have done with
translations in the past, but the things have to change. Welcome to
2015.

Sorry but my feeling is that really few have some consideration for the
work of translators and only a small subset of them seems to consider
the work of translators important enough to be taken and included in the
distribution.

They were not working because the developers were not doing their
part. So, they are not happy and they change it, good, but destroying
our side of the system, the side that was working correctly, bad.

More 'us' vs 'them' - Stop it

As wonderful as things might have been from your perspective, the
reality is that the output of 'your' part was not working correctly

Well, to some sense this is the case, but for sure not translator's fault.
The output of the translators is a bunch of files with the translations;
if no one uses them, it is not a translator's fault at all.
Example: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=906691
There the new translation has been ignored for 4 years. Is it my fault? No.
You are putting the fault on translator's shoulders ("the output of
'your' part was not working correctly") instead of on the real culprit:
the process of taking the completed translations was not working
correctly. This is not equivalent to what you said and it matches better
the reality.


Just look at Tumbleweed - Mostly untranslated, by your own omission

Is this a translator's fault?

Just look at Leap - Untranslated, by your own omission

Is this a translator's fault?
Take the Italian translation I am providing: the files in the SVN are
100% translated. If Tumbleweed/Leap are distributed not translated, is
it my fault?

You had an opportunity to step up and help shape the solution to those
problems.

You declined.

That makes you dependant on others to find solutions for you. Others
have. You can either work with them to make it better, or be quiet,
anything else is hypocrisy.

You can work with them to make it better if *you know* that something is
changing to improve the situation. Where is the communication of the
changes? No communication at all, until it has been discovered by noting
files disappear from the SVN server.


You have a you vs us the instant that a group (with suse addresses)
implement huge changes to things without talking with the rest, that
happen to have outside addresses.

Carlos, let me say this very clearly

The _contributors_ who are _contributing_ Weblate are _CONTRIBUTORS_ like you

But when the time of decision comes, it seems to me that some
contributors are more contributors than others...

The project's guiding principles (
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles ) make it clear
that we're a project that values respect for other persons and
contributions.

This is just a nice phrase, but is it applied in the real world? and
moreover, does it imply that the value is given in equal way to
different contributions?

If you wish to continue to disrespect the Weblate contributors by
discriminating against them because of their email address, if you
continue to act in this mindset of 'us' vs 'them', I strongly
encourage you to find another project that will tolerate your world
view, because it will not be accepted here.

I will continue my rant on your other mail...

Best,
Andrea

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