Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-translation (94 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-translation] Managing SUSE translations in unified way
  • From: "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 23:24:56 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1304292235010.27450@Telcontar.valinor>
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On Monday, 2013-04-29 at 22:24 +0200, Leandro Regueiro wrote:

I am going to send this message because I read several really stupid
phrases, from several different persons.

I think that "stupid" is too strong a word :-)

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:


Sorry? I criticise and give reasons and arguments. While you just
complain and are overall unconstructive.


We are already here doing things. You want to come and change how we do
things... the onus is on you, not us.

I don't recall previous conversations about changing to Weblate. I
don't really follow every discussion that happens on this mailing list
so it might happen. But given Carlos reacted this way I have my
doubts.

It is on the first post on this same thread by Tomáš Chvátal, who happens to work for SUSE. Or at least he has a suse email. And a previous thread also by him dated 2013-04-06.



You people did not bother to ask us first.

This comment is really stupid. They don't have to ask. Anyway it will
be good for the developers to ask so this discussion could be avoided.

See the initial proposal. It was a proposal for changes, made by Tomáš Chvátal, without asking us first how we did things.

However, if I interpret your sentence as meaning "SUSE does not have to ask us", yes I agree, they don't, and I'm probably stupid for complaining. You are not the only one telling me so, so there must be some truth in it.

Others instead tell me that I'm stupid in thinking that is SUSE who is organizing this.

So I must be stupid on both ends :-)



Sure, I understand, that question whether there are some
problems with such decission should be asked first, nevertheless, you
could choose more constructive approach to reach some compromise which
would make everyone happy.


As said, the onus is on the people wanting to change the current system.

You (by you I mean those who are arguing in a stupid way, for example
Carlos and Vít) are the ones that are not acting in a constructive
way.

Maybe.

I tried, but I'm not that good at social skills.


Anyway, Tomas is just member of community. Just like you, on the same
level. He offered to dedicate his time and effort into improving
current suboptimal situation.

Good. Can anybody provide any link to the mail where he expressed this
commitment and asked for input to create the tool?

As far as I understood, he did not ask for input, which is why I reacted.

<http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2013-04/msg00000.html>
<http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2013-04/msg00009.html>



But he is not a member of the translator community here.

And what is the problem?

Well, that he doesn't know our workflow, our needs, our wants. It is an outsider changing things...




And in case you haven't noticed, just your complaints were enough to
stop that effort. So, apparently, it was not decission from above as
it would otherwise be forced down our throats whether we like it or
not.

And just this discussion, or the notice of the new tool were enough to
make Gabriel wanting to drop Vertaal, the tool that for years we have
being using.

Yes :-(



I was not the only one complaining. I'm the one putting more words into it.
How many posts do you here from translators saying "yeah, lets do it!"?

Some. And that is no problem. Tools can be improved. Tools can be
replaced by new better ones. Some people might start using this tool.
I don't see a problem at all. Some others will want to keep working as
they did until now.


If the proposal is changed in a manner that people can work in their "traditional" way or in the new ways, sure, no problem. Replace one with the other, then we risk loosing people.



They are free to contribute...

Of course not. New people are not free to contribute. There are
blockers: things to learn, hard work to do...

Well, of course.

For example, if you try joining the Spanish KDE translation team, you may even have to pass an exam. There was talk of that, I don't know if they implemented it. They certainly are strict on quality.




For example, I looked at the general wiki,
<http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Localization_guide>. From there I found the
wiki of the French team, and there I found a link to vertaal documentation
here <https://github.com/dahool/vertaal/wiki/User-Guide>, in English.

It is not that difficult to find...

This last comment is really stupid. This wiki jumps can sometimes be
really hard to discover.

Well, I agree that searching the openSUSE wiki is not easy, it fails a lot to produce results. But that is not my fault, nor yours. But it took me about 3 minutes to find it.


Just compare accessibility of your tool with Weblate. Google returns
its webpage just in first entry found.
While for your tool, it was not so much. Then you cannot wonder that
basically nobody knows your tool and assumes there's none.

You are true.


The openSUSE translator community knows about it. You don't know about it
because you don't contribute here. Your help will be welcome ;-)

Also true. But a tool like this should be easier to find in order to
allow new teams to join.

Well, Gabriel explained why. Robot searches are disabled, so no google.



I didn't tested Weblate, and probably won't test in the near future. I
am really sick with the avalanche of web translation related tools
that just appeared this last years: Weblate, Transifex, Pootle...

I had a look and watched a video. It has interesting features.

But the demonstration showed translations being done directly on the tool, online, string by string (recording credit for each string to its translator).

This is something I will not do, and I'm just being sincere. No disrespect, but that is not for me. If I can not work in a similar way to what I do now, using lokalize offline to translate the same file year after year, when possible, then I'm out.

But maybe I'm wrong and the new method will attract more contributors.
Or maybe I'm right and it will lower quality.


I did not see features equivalent to the organization we manage with vertaal, so it is a switch over.


So in short, Vertaal works just fine for me since 5+ years ago, so I
will hate to have to change.

Right.


I'm not blocking anything. This is a community, and the community decides, I hope. I'm just saying that I will not work that way, and explaining why.

I read that webyast is switching over to weblate, so we'll see in time...

- -- Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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