Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-security (601 mails)

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Re: [suse-security] autorpm and latest secure files
  • From: Gerhard Sittig <Gerhard.Sittig@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:34:44 +0200
  • Message-id: <20000812083444.J261@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 14:17 -0600, Kurt Seifried wrote:
> > And don't believe in "automated security". I feel quite strong
> > about that automatic updates won't work without heavy human
> > supervision. :) Having your system (potentially) damaged by a
> > simple minded program sucking in every update unchecked just
> > because "the file was there and I felt like applying it" is not
> > fun. When something breaks, *I* want to be the reason why. :>
> Security has to be automated as much as possible. What happens when
> companies roll out 5000 linux desktops?

I guess I put it into the wrong words ...

I meant that I don't believe in automatic upgrading from an
external source. I want to be the instance making the decision
about how and most of all _when_ to break a system (or to risk
breaking it) by updating.

Admittedly I've never been in the above position to handle a few
thousands of installations. Neither did I get close to this in
any way. :) But I could imagine grouping these machines and
applying the updates in steps to see how they react. In a
perfect world the updates only remove some remedies and plainly
work. In the real world these updates have side effects and you
don't want to break *all* machines at _once._ There have been
- and always will be - updates which just don't work (quick
response in an attempt to help before the "real" fix is found and
tested) and updates which change some behaviour other software
has to be obeying too.

To put it short: At the very least I would like to to have a
filter _which_ updates (of all the availables) get applied and
_when_ I want to risk updating my machines. This involves a test
beforehand on isolated machines to recognize when a fix for one
thing breaks other things or doesn't fix something. I don't
believe in a distributor to autodeliver updates to me, I still
see this as a service and an offer and I'm still the one to
accept or delay or reject.

Of course(?) once I want to apply an update, I'm still free to do
so automatically inside my reach, from a source *I* define and
for a set of machines I declare (and these could be all machines,
as well). We agree that physically stepping up in front of more
than ten machines is something no admin would like to do and even
doing so via network will raise the feeling "there should be a
different way without me sitting here and waiting for the
computer(s) to finish". :) And I'm aware that delayed
application of available fixes to known problems leave a window
of possible vulnerability. But I don't want to be forced to
accept fixes' downsides just because a fix is published.

Maybe we're talking about different granularity and release
schemes here? Maybe you put more trust into the fix' publisher
than I do? But surely I speak as someone who never had to handle
more than some twenty machines at once.

virtually yours 82D1 9B9C 01DC 4FB4 D7B4 61BE 3F49 4F77 72DE DA76
Gerhard Sittig true | mail -s "get gpg key" Gerhard.Sittig@xxxxxxx
If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above
ask your parents or an adult to help you.

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