Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (265 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: openSUSE Project Name Change Vote
On 21/10/19 2:19 pm, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@xxxxxxxxxxxx> [10-20-19 21:45]:

goodness, 10 levels of quotes and many signatures. maybe time to relate a
recent post from another openSUSE list:

On 10/19/19 11:55 PM, Adam Spiers wrote:
> Please can *everyone*[1] trim unnecessary quoted text from their
> replies? It's tiring to have to scroll through pages of old text
> just to reach a one-line reply at the bottom. Thanks in advance!
Thanks for bringing this up.
There is this nice wiki page [1] about mailing list netiquette. I
usually use as a reference in local meetups whenever netiquette is
brought up.
Ish Sookun

and this is directed at the LIST, not one particular poster.

if you cannot take the time to trim your posts, and be considerate, why
post at all!

On 17 October 2019 Patrick Shanahan wrote in this thread the following, and I quote:


* Simon Lees <sflees@xxxxxxx> [10-16-19 23:29]:
> On 10/17/19 1:11 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>> * Simon Lees <sflees@xxxxxxx> [10-16-19 18:16]:
>>> On 10/16/19 6:10 PM, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 2:31 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 13/10/19 11:57 pm, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>> * Simon Lees <sflees@xxxxxxx> [10-13-19 03:44]:
>>>>>>> On 10/12/19 7:19 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>>> * Ish Sookun <ish.sookun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [10-11-19 13:52]:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>>>>>>> On 10/12/19 12:31 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> and how are you tallying the "Abstention" votes
>>>>>>>>>> w/o and indication that
>>>>>>>>>> "Abstention" is desired rather than "just not voting".
>>>>>>>>> What I meant is that the act of not voting in itself is abstention.
>>>>>>>> but it is not recorded and indiscernible from not voting.� there is a
>>>>>>>> difference from abstention and not voting and they are not equal. one
>>>>>>>> would have to know the choice was made and not just failing to vote.
>>>>>>> Given that all our ballots are private and no one can see
>>>>>>> who voted for what
>>>>>>> I don't think abstain really means anything, its not like
>>>>>>> Australia where it
>>>>>>> is compulsory to turn up and vote.
>>>>>>> Having abstain doesn't really tell us anything other then
>>>>>>> making the result
>>>>>>> more complex and giving people something to argue over.
>>>>>>> Personally if we
>>>>>>> went back and added it i'd just ignore it.
>>>>>>> We also have to remember that starting a new vote would
>>>>>>> cause some confusion
>>>>>>> and we would have to work hard to ensure that people who
>>>>>>> already voted don't
>>>>>>> get confused and not vote because they think they already have.
>>>>>>> While the current vote isn't perfect I think that starting
>>>>>>> another vote now
>>>>>>> will just make things worse. The board has made it clear
>>>>>>> that we are after
>>>>>>> an indication of whether people would like the openSUSE name
>>>>>>> changed or not
>>>>>>> so that we can take that data forward into our future
>>>>>>> decision making and
>>>>>>> will try our best to implement that solution, with that in
>>>>>>> mind while the
>>>>>>> current naming isn't the best we had it does ask that question.
>>>>>> imnsho, abstention indicates the provided options are not viable to the
>>>>>> voter where not voting indicates a lack of interest or not knowing there
>>>>>> is a vote.� then a large number of abstentions would indicate
>>>>>> the outcome
>>>>>> of the vote was seriously flawed.
>>>>>> and I understand completely the problems with leadership by
>>>>>> committee but
>>>>>> an uninformed vote and/or a indecisive ballot do not provide information
>>>>>> worthy of action.
>>>>> I have read most, but all, of the thread(s) regarding the matter of
>>>>> name change of 'openSUSE'.
>>>>> My take on the matter is that someone is pushing their own agenda
>>>>> and the decision to change the name from openSUSE to whatever (yet
>>>>> to be decided no doubt by another "vote" of the Community members
>>>>> [which count how many? some 286 or so voters?]) has already been
>>>>> made.
>>>> That would be 491 community members, and the idea of another vote to
>>>> choose the final name was a thing since the beginning. You should
>>>> familiarize yourself with the initial discussion from May/June.
>>>>> Perhaps I missed the statement, which is quite possible, but I
>>>>> haven't seen where any member of the past or current board has
>>>>> stated that an approach was made to the SUSE management and/or
>>>>> SUSE's legal team and the question was asked of them, "Is their some
>>>>> insurmountable problem which would be faced if the name 'openSUSE'
>>>>> was used for the creation of the suggested '[openSUSE] Foundation'?"
>>>>> Now, I would have thought that this would have been the very first
>>>>> thing that should have been settled; if the answer was that there
>>>>> is/are no insurmountable problem(s) then their is no need for the
>>>>> vote which is now being conducted, but if the answer was 'Yes' then
>>>>> the everyone's time and effort in creating this poll of the
>>>>> 'Communiy' would be directed at "What should be now call 'openSUSE'.
>>>>> (And I'll bet that that name has already been determined by whoever
>>>>> is pushing their agenda in this matter.)
>>>> What is that name? I would love to hear it.
>>>>> If I have missed the part where SUSE management and their legal team
>>>>> has been asked "The Question" then I apologise for wasting your time
>>>>> in reading what I wrote and would greatly appreciate it if 'you'
>>>>> could point me to the the post(s) where the response to "The
>>>>> Question" was quoted.
>>>> I asked this question in form of "How restricting would openSUSE be in
>>>> case we used it as the foundation name?", however, afaik, it never got
>>>> past the board, just because we still had/have(?) no clue about the
>>>> final form of the foundation, so it wasn't/isn't(?) worth it to get the
>>>> lawyers involved.
>>> This is basically correct, the initial discussions we had with a more
>>> general lawyer around the time this was first discussed was it could be
>>> quite restrictive, but followup with a trademark lawyer has suggested that
>>> it should not be restrictive at all.
>>> This is why the board would really like your opinion on a name change
>>> without taking this issue too much into account. If most want to change the
>>> name anyway then its a non issue, if an "openSUSE Foundation" does end up
>>> being too legally restrictive for whatever reason then the board will
>>> propose using something else (but if most people want to not change the
>>> project's name we won't change the name of anything else). But the current
>>> advice the board has is it shouldn't be legally restrictive so we hope to
>>> just be able to follow the result of the vote.
>> so we can expect a ballot which allows our opinion to be counted rather
>> than just a yes vs no along with an explanation of what the vote is for?
>> or not ...
> To read between the lines of your wording the board has decided not to
> include any further options in the vote, however we are working toward
> having a page with a clear explanation of what the vote is for including a
> summary of the arguments for each side.
> We expect this to be finalised in the coming days and will be sent out to
> everyone eligible to vote. Anyone who has already voted will be able to
> change there vote if they have changed there mind.
> But just for you the explanation is quite simple, we are asking you if
> **you** think openSUSE should change its name everywhere in such a way that
> eventually the name "openSUSE" doesn't exist and is replaced with something
> else. The board will use this information to guide our decision making
> around issues related to the creation of a foundation initially and if the
> result is that of a change we will then work out how to move forward
> elsewhere.
> But as I have said the board is still working through some final details and
> when they are sorted you will know more.

and I will again vote *against* changing from openSUSE.


"Do as I say, not as I do".

chestnuts n.- An embarrassing and painful male condition.

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