Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (265 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Election Committee Set to Open Vote on Project Name

On 01.10.19 22:20, Axel Braun wrote:

Am Dienstag, 1. Oktober 2019, 16:20:10 CEST schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
On 01.10.19 13:54, Administrator wrote:
1) this question reminds me strangely of the Brexit referendum as it’s a
simple question with one path familiar and the other totally undefined.
I think it will produce the same kind of result … people dissatisfied
with the status-quo will vote against without voting for something
A friend of mine mentioned the same thing yesterday evening when I was
explaining the situation and discussing it with them. I must admit, it
also rings true for me...

Can someone from the board please comment on this? You are proposing to
put this vote to the membership right? Have you thought and discussed
about the validity/gravity of this kind of question?

Yes we have.
The question / idea was raised to the board on the last openSUSE conference.
There was already a longer mail discussion about this, and all pro/con were

There has been a discussion on the mailinglist/github and people have
expressed their opinion, this is cool.

But this discussion evolved around a pretty incomplete problem statement
which vaguely describes the reality (the current state) BUT COMPLETELY
omits the ideal (the desired state for the project) we want to end up
with, also the consequences (the impact on the project) this decision
has. And most importantly it also omits the proposal (describing the
potential solutions to handle the impact) how we are going to achieve
this name change. All of this is unclear as of today!

As we are on the edge of a new era (legal structure/foundation) it would now
be the time to change the name - if the majority of members want this .

I understand that there is a timing issue involved here. However, there
is no need for rush right?

We as board discussed as well, but personal opinions of board members do not
count in that context.

What do you mean by that? I don't understand. We elected all of you
because we believe that your personal opinions are somewhat similar to
our opinions and that you will represent our vote. Your personal opinion
is the only thing that matters.

Anyway, we have to respect the desire of the community, and this is why the
poll will take place as announced.

I understand the purpose of voting. But who exactly is responsible for
putting exactly *this* question forward? The board right?

Different to the Brexit, we are not politicians, and nobody needs to give the
Board a 'Denkzettel' (hopefully).

I'm not worried that this has something to do with expressing personal
dissatisfaction to anyone (especially not to the board) or politics.

Every member should be aware that each vote
counts, and each vote can be the decision taking one.

I am worried about the content (and type) of question you put forward.

One option I can vote for (not changing) is exactly defined. The other
option you put forward (change the name) is completely undefined and vague.

If we don't change, nothing happens and everything stays at it is, and
most people know how things are currently. Nobody even has an idea of an
overview of what will and would need to happen if we change the name.

See Simons mail for instance, the description of the reasons to changing
the name are very concise and practical. The reasons to not change the
name are abstract and imprecise.

So if you put the vote forward like that, people will have a vote on
something they can imagine very well (a.k.a. status quo) versus some
*undefined* future. Into the undefined, exactly because it's so
boundless and vague, you can interpret everything that you might want to
have changed in openSUSE, no matter if that really changes or not after
the vote.

One of the decisions is informed, the other one uninformed.

This is dangerous territory! You *must* see this. I urge you to
re-consider and come up with a vote where the consequences, of *both*
options people can vote for, are as clearly defined as you can. This is
your job as leaders of this project!


p.s. My personal opinion on the name change doesn't matter for this
argument, please do not fall into the trap that I think of one better
than the other. I'm purely worried about the vote itself.

Henne Vogelsang
Everybody has a plan, until they get hit.
- Mike Tyson
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