Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (88 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE 13.1 - Preparation for Evergreen
Hi,


Am 14.12.2015 um 10:44 schrieb Richard Brown:
On 14 December 2015 at 10:29, jdd <jdd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Le 14/12/2015 10:21, Richard Brown a écrit :

That is precisely what I am doing here - making it clear that with
Wolfgang's currently stated position the Evergreen project is unlikely
to continue without finding new contributors to replace him


why can't Wolfgang answer himself?

He can - but I think it's unreasonable to expect Wolfgang (or anyone)
to pay attention to absolutely every thread in every list and respond
promptly.. I imagine he just hasn't noticed this thread then..so let's
ping him

It's like year end's busyness or something like that ;-)
I followed the thread a bit but haven't had time nor wanted to repeat
myself. So this mail might be less diplomatic as usual from my side.

Wolfgang, do you have any intention of continuing Evergreen after November
2016?

My very own situation:
Compared to 11.4 I'm not using 13.1 myself anymore because Leap came up.
I gave my word to the initial plan for 13.1 Evergreen and plan to
deliver on it as good as possible although the time have left for fun
projects like these is far less than in the past.
I will still be around even after November 2016 but as can be foreseen
by now I'm not taking the ownership and responsibility afterwards.

Are you still looking for replacement contributors as you were a few weeks
ago?

First of all I'm looking for general contributors ;-) But speaking for
13.1 starting November 2016 if there is interest I would expect that
someone will take over ownership and I'll help as much as I can to make
this possible.

who can know what volunteer will come if encouraged?

Yes, but why do I (or Wolfgang for that matter) have to be the one
encouraging them?

In my case, I think Evergreen is effectively replaced by Leap. I do
not feel sufficient justification to continue Evergreen so I am not
the right person to encourage anyone to do anything.

Based on Wolfgangs statement on the 16th Nov that seems to be how he
feels too, although clearly he leaves the door open for others to step
in and has offered to help teach them.

I'm not a marketing person and I certainly will not throw my energy in
trying to encourage people.
But I'm also not irreplaceable at all. I'm not sure what people expect.
It does not help to send mails in my direction asking to extend
Evergreen's lifetime just because. I mean it's nice that people find our
work useful but it has certainly limits.

I always wanted to keep out any commercial discussion here but given the
expectations some people throw in I'd like to make this clear:

I did Evergreen because I needed it myself and I wanted to concentrate
all the spread efforts into one common project to ease the pain for
everyone who had the same issues as I had. It was planned as and it
always was community effort. What I read now everywhere is that people
almost demand something.
So really. There must be people inbetween the ones demanding longer
support who are able to do the work technically. Guys, it's not that
hard. Take responsibility for something (or actually pay someone to do
it for you).

Pretending Evergreen currently has a stable future beyond the date of
November 2016 would be a farcical fantasy

I wouldn't see it that pessimistic but yes, people need to step up if
they want to continue afterwards.

Given this thread was encouraging more work from a great many more
maintainers than just the 'core' Evergreen team, I think it's
important to make the situation as it stands today very clear.

Keeping repositories for 13.1 is something which would certainly be
nice. What I do not want to see is that OBS admins filing automated
repository delete requests for 13.1 because it's "not maintained"
anymore. But I think this is not too much asked?
For all the others I hope that maintainers make a reasonable choice
about 13.1 support.
I have no right at all to tell people what to do. The same way as others
do not have the right to tell me what to do.

But if people want Evergreen to last longer than November 2016, they
need to do the work, now. They need to step up, take up Wolfgangs
offer and learn from him, then make clear public statements about how
long they intend to support Evergreen. Until then, the stated, and
expected, end date of Evergreen is November 2016.

It's really that simple, I understand why people may not like it, but
that's not my fault and it's fully within the power of others to
change it.

Correct summary.


Wolfgang

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