On Thursday 05 December 2013 19.36:16 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Adam Spiers <aspiers@suse.com> wrote:
Bruno Friedmann (bruno@ioda-net.ch) wrote:
I hate karma :-)
When I saw so stupid answers by HighSuperGod Karma on forums, which I avoid like the pest due to karma system.
The meaningfulness of karma depends entirely on how it's allocated. I'm sure it's easy on some forums for idiots to obtain high karma, but I challenge you to find any really stupid answers on stackoverflow written by people whilst they had > 10,000 reputation points :-) Please be wary of inaccurate extrapolation or over-generalization.
I believe it should be possible to find a karma system which works for openSUSE. I don't believe it will be easy though ;-)
I think this is a very important point that probably was not clear enough in the initial proposal: we realize that this is a terribly complicated idea with great potential to do harm.
And yes, a 'karma-driven development process' sounds scary and wrong. I think that that idea takes a far too narrow, technical view of the development process of a Linux distribution, which is about people and human relationships. Bruno's response makes this very clear.
But that doesn't mean there is no good in it. There is more to the karmafication idea than a single score.
Karmafication is about making contributions visible: credit where it is due.
For example, having a single page (on connect, most likely) where a visitor can see in what areas a contributor is active, for how long and how - that would be a step forward. Like seeing how many and what packages somebody maintains, what events he/she visits (note that this is connected to a rather old proposal: https://features.opensuse.org/312181 ), what languages he/she translates, who is mentoring who, stuff like that.
Think like how "number of accepted SR's person X has in Factory" is a valuable thing for deciding to make somebody maintainer or accepting a package in a Devel project. How "number of events organized" helps the TSP decide to choose who to support for an upcoming event. Right now, both decisions are made on pure personal relationships. That is unfair for people living in South America or India, for example. Language, culture and distance DO play a role there. No, we can't REPLACE personal relationships, but we can help people who have to make decisions (like the TSP or the teams maintaining Devel projects or Factory) with relevant information.
And with regards to motivation: out of this data, we can easily show a top-ten of contributors to Factory, to the wiki, to the forums - things like that. That is motivating, more for some than for others, but saying it does nothing is just not true.
Again, it is about credit where it is due: some people in our community do a HUGE amount of hard work, without themselves even knowing HOW MUCH their work is appreciated by others. Our home repo's on OBS don't show how many users they have. Some have tens of thousands of people downloading packages - do you all not agree that that would be great to make visible?
Think about Karmification this way: it is about showing who does what and what the value of that is. That should be fair, clear and transparent. And indeed, that does not really fit in a single karma score, we all know life is to complicated for that.
Executing this plan will have to take a iterative, very gradual approach. Implement things that make sense for everybody, take it from there.
I hope this clears up some things and helps alleviate fear that in the future, packages will be denied by an automated Karma Police Bot...
Cheers, Jos
Sorry to insist, but you reduce (use translate if you want) mankind in numbers. I understand the points about making choice for team like tsp and co. But I can't believe we are forced in the whole community to follow those stupid school rules. Hey dad you can be proud of me, I've got a good point... Come on. I can't believe that we are not able to know who do the work. Did we get real complaint about our top contributors getting not enough gratitude? Be just assured about one thing, even if a packager has pushed 10000 packages to factory, I will not blindly trust the 10001! And also I would be able to trust a first submission of a newcomer. There's NO difference in contribution. The number also doesn't mean quality, nor constant quality of doing. Hugs :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org