Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (230 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE 2016 picture
Am 30.11.2013 22:22, schrieb Robert Schweikert:
I would like openSUSE to stay relevant.
For example relevant to stay (or get) supported from third party (yes,
even closed source) software vendors.

This is extremely difficult.SUSE has a whole team dedicated to get
support for SLES from ISVs. Every time an ISVs states supprt for a
distribution it costs the ISV a large chunk of money. I am not certain
that we can pedal fast and hard enough to make it worth the while of an
ISV to state support for openSUSE. There is not necessarily a direct
correlation to relevance.

hmm, some examples I have in mind:
SpiderOak
Spotify
Crossover Office

That's not the sort of ISV you are used to probably but none of them has
packages for openSUSE but they have for Fedora and Ubuntu at least.
And there are probably many more similar to those. And yes I'm pretty
sure that the size of the user base is relevant to get their attention.

I would really prefer someone to be able to make technical decisions if
needed.
The status quo seems to be that coolo is the one because someone needs
to keep Factory working. So we will always need someone to decide and
even when I basically trust coolo I think this is not the right approach.

Well, coolo is not the only one making the decisions. We do have a
process of getting stuff into factory. This is mostly being followed I
think. The process includes publicly proclaiming the intentions of
getting a package into factory. When this happens everyone has the
opportunity to pipe up and state their case why a given package should
or should not be in factory. Not responding as is the case in most cases
is also a decision and indicates that people are OK with the submission.

The process is only for new additions to Factory. I'm thinking more
about changes done to components already in openSUSE. I'm not aware
there is a process (and I couldn't imagine a process for it anyway).

I understand the philosophy for Technical Governance to date has largely
been 'those who do, decide'. If changes are made in this area, I'd like
to think they can keep that spirit, the idea anyone can get involved and
that changes are made on their technical merits, not political ones (eg.
does the submitter sit on the right steering group? who is their
employer?)

Yes, no politics please. Just technical decisions to the best of the
project.

Is this a vote/argument for a technical steering committee?

Yes.
In some situations in the past I would have liked a group of persons to
take technical decisions (based on different input) if there are
conflicts in the community about certain things.

As mentioned above, I think the way things work right now we make
technical decisions, maybe they are not explicit, but they do get made.

Yes, they get made. Often enough not transparent enough in my opinion
and not explicit enough but just by ignoring things and let contributors
do whatever they like. Yes, that is a decision but not the sort of
decisions I like to see.
And please don't ask for examples. There are probably not many but it's
my feeling and that is enough in the end.

I also don't think that this task should be done by the board
but by a different group of people.
The 'those who do, decide' is basically something I support to an
extend. But we had examples in the past that people who decided only
"did it" halfway and put the burden onto the rest of of the community to
fix their mess

Yes, that has happened and is definitely not nice behavior to the rest
of the community. However I am not certain that a different decision
making process would help here, it maybe that a few tweaks to the
development model maybe better suited to address these cases.

I'm still concerned that we have no "legitimized" board for escalated
technical decisions. For non-critical things the community approach
probably is enough but there might be situations where a formal
transparent traceable process leading to a decision is needed. Which
instance in the community is supposed to decide in such situations
today? The board is explicitely (as I understood) not meant to do that.


Wolfgang
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