Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (502 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] iChain or iPain?
  • From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:34:58 +0200
  • Message-id: <20110420193458.GD21543@hera>
On 2011-04-20 13:13:29 (-0600), Stephen Shaw <sshaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 12:02, Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On 2011-04-18 11:02:49 (+0200), Andreas Jaeger <aj@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[...]
The build service team has been developing a completely new proxy server
that
uses ldap directly to get rid of the broken ichain proxy. The systems is
ready
but we would have loved to give it some more testing and had hoped that
ichain
would be with us a few more days...
[...]
But it is yet another example of something being developed as an
in-breed solution in a couple of offices at Maxtorgraben, 5 in
N├╝rnberg.
[...]
I don't have a problem with how this was handled. I don't think it
came as a surprise to anyone that they were switching. Where this was

It does come as a (very good) surprise, because we've been
plagued by iChain since quite some time now. Now suddenly, we
hear that there's a replacement.
Don't get me wrong: it's great that there will be a replacement,
I don't think anyone argues about that :))

something that was impacting a mission critical service opening it up
to the community would have only pushed the fix off. I mean
seriously. Look at any of the "way-too-many mailing-lists" and the
discussions on them. It takes us weeks if not months to argue over
the topic to only have everyone get upset and walk away from it. And
heck, even on the occasion that we actually arrive at a decision,
close the topic, effectively implement it we still have people rehash
it over and over again.

I think that there is definitely a difference between technical
topics and soft topics, for one. And then, there is rarely any
discussion about such topics in the first place. It's "we've
done this", at best, and that's it.

Discussions getting too long is actually an entirely different
problem, and a big one, which certainly requires attention and
taking action, but that's not an excuse for not at least
blogging or posting about something to give people a chance of
chiming in with ideas and advice, or even with code.

Heck, at least blog about it.
"Michael and I have started to think about a replacement for
iChain, because yada yada. There are a few options out there,
and we need yada yada. mod_auth_memcookie looks neat, Michael is
currently investigating it. If you have some experience or ideas
to share, poke us on yada yada"

How hard is it ? (I know, I don't do it all that much myself :))

So, the long and short of my rant. If getting OBS back to a stable
state in a matter of days/couple weeks meant cutting out the weeks of
arguing over what implementation would in theory be better, then I'll
take the executed decision any day (when talking about getting a
mission critical service back up and running correctly).

It's not about this particular case, but in general, those
discussions never happen that way.
And that way of working doesn't happen with non-mission-critical
topics either.

Just as a side note... How many community people currently contribute
to the development/design of OBS? I'd say with exception they are the
only ones in any real position to give advise here.

Hey, *precisely* my point :)

"Here is what we've done. No we won't discuss it nor change it.
Now contribute." -- you really think that has any chance of
working? I don't think so, personally :)

cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green
_\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
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