Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

< Previous Next >
Re: [opensuse-project] Re: Decision making transparency ...
  • From: "Kevin \"Yeaux\" Dupuy" <kevin.dupuy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:20:17 -0500
  • Message-id: <1251256817.4791.36.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, 2009-08-25 at 14:50 +0200, Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 25 August 2009 13:07:50 Michael Meeks wrote:
Hi Michael,

First my bias - I believe this is the wrong decision. Nevertheless -
were I convinced that in fact it was made by a
reasonably open and transparent process - I would be able to accept
it in good conscience - in the spirit of tolerance and community; all
democrats get to swallow bitter fruit sometimes :-)
Well said.

Let me first disclaim that I agree with Michael Meeks here.

Frankly, the openSUSE Board was just a mirror of the community. So again a
pretty heated discussion. No clear recommendation.

When you say they were just a mirror of the community, what do you mean?
I take this to mean there were people on each side of the issue, just
arguing back and forth with no real solution. If that's true, that's a
problem. That's not what I thought the Board's job is. I, for one, would
like to hear from other Board members (if they so wish) about what
happened, and how the decision was brought up and discussed. Let's get
some transparency in this opaque decision.

It is one thing that the board discusses the issue, and comes to a
compromise. It is another thing to (somehow) -trust- that, inside the
head of one person - who happens to be a KDE user, based in a KDE
hotspot ;-) -
huh - so, I'm working at the wrong place to make an objective decision.
weird to me.

I think what he's saying is that you are a KDE user (I'm presuming, I'm
not sure) and so therefore you may be pre-disposed to wanting KDE
selected by default. That's not saying it's for certain, after all there
have been several KDE users on the list saying they don't think we
should have a default.

If you take into account the surveys, openSUSE's history, the feedback and
votes for the feature I think I made a pretty democratic decision.

Democratic or caving to the mob?

I'm serious here, because there was an extremely vocal minority on the
mailinglist supporting this. As I write this, the score on openFATE is
341 for the original request to make KDE default. 341 more people
support this than oppose it (or at least that seems to be how the score
is worked out). 464 people have supported this. Now, how many
openSUSE/Novell accounts are registered, and what's that number compared
to 464?

I think we can be sure that this person is removable if doing the wrong

Really? An elected representative of the community is different that one
who does this as part of their job - personally, this is the first time
I or most of us have had an objection to a decision you've made. If you
made this decision in the role of an elected rep., I'd be thinking
"yeah, I'm not going to vote for him next election", but because it's
part of your normal work, I wouldn't say "ah, let's get rid of our
product manager", especially since as I said, I've never really had
anything against something you've decided until now.

I would ask that at the openSUSE conference we can come to an
understanding of a rather more useful role for the openSUSE board for
this kind of decision. Is it planned to have a discussion on this narrow
topic of transparency; indeed the whole issue of openSUSE governance
seems like it could do with re-visiting [ clearly with no reference to
this current hot topic ].
Yes, the governance topic will be covered during the conference.

This is good, even though I won't be able to attend.

We want to make clear that both desktops are considered equal
citizens within the openSUSE Project

How about actually sketching out what this really means, if indeed it
means anything at all, to re-assure the GNOME guys that this is not the
very unsubtle end of a big wedge to squeeze them out, and make their
(already un-necessarily unpleasant) experience of openSUSE advocacy
Please don't read things into a radio button which aren't there.

No, we're not reading into something that isn't there, we're reading
into something that's completely there. You've made a political
decision, whether you meant to or not, that KDE is more important than
Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy
openSUSE Project Member

To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx

< Previous Next >
This Thread