Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Creating a group of conserned Users and Novell partners/longer life time for openSUSE... (LONG POST)
  • From: Peter Albrecht <peter.albrecht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:38:13 +0200
  • Message-id: <200908221938.13521.peter.albrecht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Boyd,

Exactly how much time they need "to be convinced that they are able to
treat the OS as only a tool on which they are able to run their
business"? SLE already has a 60 days evaluation period... if the only
problem is that it's too short just make it longer, no need for a new
distro.
If you can argue Novell is losing clients, and so money, because the
evaluation period is too short I'm sure they will make it longer in no
time. But I expect they to have studied this at deep, not just
selected 60 at random.

The problem is really one of time for me. I often find depending on
industry, that I have to add openSUSE packages, or customize their
configuration. It is hard in these economic times, for me to take the
risk. Basically, I have been having to do everything for free till they
get that "warm fuzy". The time for them to get that "warm fuzzy" has
been taking about 6-8 months. So lets look at things a bit.

I'm not sure if I did get that right, so just use an example: You do
install packages from openSUSE 11.1 into SLE 11 because the customer needs
this application. Your (or your customers) concern is now exactly what?
That there will be no updates or patches available for this application
after openSUSE 11.1 is no longer supported?

How could the proposed "openSLE 11" solve this problem?

* Somebody would need to provide all the patches and updates in the future.
And that person can already do that now using the openSUSE Build Service.
If you need to run an application from SUSE 10.1 on SLES 10 SP2, you
could provide up-to-date versions via the openSUSE Build Service. I don't
see that "openSLE" would go any different way.
* If the customer decides after 6-8 months of testing "Yes, we go with
Linux", what would be the reason for not going with SLE but rather with
"openSLE"?

Choices
1. Install openSUSE (now only an additional 10 months to a year before
they have to install a new openSUSE.
a. No Large Company (to blame for things going wrong or security
issues.
b. To short of a lifetime. (What to have it just be a tool not a
worry or concern.
c. Constanyly changing and having to work at the tool instead of
just using it to make a profit.
d. Bugs fixed quickly or more quickly (perception).

And all these points are good reasons to use SLE. It's free as well, but
you pay for the services. I think it is a problem that many companies
still think "Oh, Linux is free, so I want everything for free. And it
should be supported for 5+ years with providing patches for free." That is
the big misunderstanding we all need to work on.

2. Install SLE(S,D)
a. Large company with rep.
b. Bad Novel experience, not SuSE.

What kind of "bad" experience? Is this something you could do as it's your
customer? If Novell focuses on the large customers, it would be the chance
for Novell partners or independent companies to provide that service.

c. "Bugs take longer to be fixed and releases"

I doubt that. When you look at the SUSE security announcements they are
issued at the same time for all operating systems - openSUSE as well as
SUSE Linux Enterprise.

d. Have to pay before the "warm fuzzy" (My time unbillable)
(Way I have been doing things in the past.) I am changin my
pratice and now everything must be paid in advance. Which leads
to the next comment I received today"
e. "To much up front cost before seeing benefits"

How would that change in an "openSLE" environment? Would you not charge for
your work with that? Again, my point from above: Everybody offering
services for Open Source Software needs to make clear that you do of
course have to pay for the services. Just the software is free.

f. Good support for extended period (7 years) "Big plus"
g. Plus/minus GNOME (depends on point of view). "Comment
today "KDE is a second class citizen"

Both KDE and GNOME are offered for SLE. And I don't see a bigger difference
between the two on SLE compared to those on openSUSE (if you take 11.1
which is the base for SLE 11).

Regards,

Peter

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