Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-announce] Creating a group of conserned Users and Novell partners/longer life time for openSUSE... (LONG POST)
  • From: Boyd Lynn Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:16:40 -0600
  • Message-id: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908211053430.21410@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:
2009/8/21 Boyd Lynn Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx>:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Per Jessen wrote:
Peter Albrecht wrote:
4.  "Tired of hearing we do this for fun, it is not my
problem/responsibility, hire a programmer or become one."  "Fix it
yourself as it is a community distro.  The community is not doing
enough or is too small."  What happens is or feels like the various
groups that are part of the community are not fully trusted.  What I
see/feel/hear is that globally the openSUSE distro is moving to the
bottom of the Linux Distro Heap.  I am being asked to move to CentOS
as it has a longer support window.  "Having to update my OS every 2
years is a real pain in the butt!  Now it is moving to a 18 month
window.  I really need to look at something else that meets my needs"
Business like to stay as long  as they are able to the release.  "If
it aint broke don't fix it!"  "We really need a fall back position.
What are your recommendations?
Doesn't Novell realize who pays their salaries?  What about Ubunto,
Debian, Fedora/CentOS, or Solaris, BSDs?"

My question is: Why don't these customers move to SUSE Linux
Enterprise (Server and Desktop)? Is that EUR 300.00 per year an amount
they do not want to pay for getting 7 years of support, updates and
training? Don't they want to pay additional money for the services?
Are they not happy with the services offered by Novell or with the way
Novell treats them?

That's exactly what I thought too when I read Boyds item#4.

Some good points and I know their are some that the $ do matter, but for
most they do not want to move to a "Linux alteritive" till they are
convinced that they are able to treat the OS as only a tool on which they
are able to run their business.  Personally, I really can not in good
consence install a SLE(S,D) that had not been paided for and does not get
security fixes to prove to them that "Linux is the right choice" (My
prefernce openSUSE--SLE(S,D))  So they are able to get that "warm fuzzy". I
have had really good results in installing CentOS and moving them to RHEL.
 It hurts me on a personal level having to go that route.  I really dislike
having to be forced to use and support something that my heart is not into.
 My heart is with the openSUSE -- SLE(S,D), but I have to make a living and
the customer is the one I serve.  So, if I currently one have one choice for
them, I have to use the Red Hat alternitive (even though I think they
could/would be best served in the long run by the Novell alternitive).

Exactly how much time they need "to be convinced that they are able to
treat the OS as only a tool on which they are able to run their
business"? SLE already has a 60 days evaluation period... if the only
problem is that it's too short just make it longer, no need for a new
If you can argue Novell is losing clients, and so money, because the
evaluation period is too short I'm sure they will make it longer in no
time. But I expect they to have studied this at deep, not just
selected 60 at random.

The problem is really one of time for me. I often find depending on industry, that I have to add openSUSE packages, or customize their configuration. It is hard in these economic times, for me to take the risk. Basically, I have been having to do everything for free till they get that "warm fuzy". The time for them to get that "warm fuzzy" has been taking about 6-8 months. So lets look at things a bit.

1. Install openSUSE (now only an additional 10 months to a year before they have to install a new openSUSE.
a. No Large Company (to blame for things going wrong or security
b. To short of a lifetime. (What to have it just be a tool not a
worry or concern.
c. Constanyly changing and having to work at the tool instead of
just using it to make a profit.
d. Bugs fixed quickly or more quickly (perception).
2. Install SLE(S,D)
a. Large company with rep.
b. Bad Novel experience, not SuSE.
c. "Bugs take longer to be fixed and releases"
d. Have to pay before the "warm fuzzy" (My time unbillable)
(Way I have been doing things in the past.) I am changin my
pratice and now everything must be paid in advance. Which leads
to the next comment I received today"
e. "To much up front cost before seeing benefits"
f. Good support for extended period (7 years) "Big plus"
g. Plus/minus GNOME (depends on point of view). "Comment
today "KDE is a second class citizen"

We SMB's really do not have the time to really customize a SLE(D,S) on our own for each industry. We are forced to specialize. Hence this group to pool all our resources to from a united front to offer a Novell alternitive to the current precived best choice Red Hat alternitive that already has a large community and CentOS to RHEL path that looks really good to many business. I hear that "Red Hat make the OS a tool not a religion" The Novell path "Is a religion oriented OS" It is not but that is what I am hearing from my clients.

Boyd Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx> 801 849-0213
ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047
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