Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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[opensuse-project] Re: openFATE feature 306967, KDE default
  • From: Jim Henderson <hendersj@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:00:11 +0000 (UTC)
  • Message-id: <h5hfhr$c6p$6@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:17:45 +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Freitag, 7. August 2009 00:45:27 schrieb Jim Henderson:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:57:40 +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:
What I do not understand from a user's point of view is the
following. In this thread it is argumented that having a default or
even having a pre-selection on that installation page would send a
message which could offend, insult, disappoint etc. Gnome users.

Considering the claim from some in the KDE community that they're
offended, insulted, disappointed, etc because KDE isn't a preferred/
default/first selection, it seems reasonable to apply that metric
evenly across the memberships of both groups of users, no?

At least it would be a consistent line of argumentation for all
subjective points, such as wich DE is better etc. Not so for objectively
measurable points like user numbers.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. It seems to me that what
you're trying to say is that it's OK for the KDE camp to use this
argument to get their way, but not OK for the GNOME camp to use this as a
defense against the change. That seems inherently unfair, but so does
this whole idea that giving KDE equal treatment isn't fair, but giving
KDE preferential treatment (in the form of a default selection in the
installer) somehow is. "Fair" in and of itself implies a form of
equality, so calling an equal situation "unfair" and an unequal situation
"fair" doesn't parse for me.

No moreso than Kubuntu sends an anti-GNOME message to Ubuntu users.
SLE is a derivation of openSUSE. That it prefers GNOME over KDE isn't
IMHO any more significant than any other distro having a derived
distribution that uses a different package set or desktop environment.

Why would the "treat them equally" stop there? Your argumentation is not
valid in my opinion since there is no KDE derivation like SLE, hence
there is a negative message sent to KDE from the SLE people. If there
was, I would agree with you.

Of course someone who wants to see this go through would see my point as
invalid - because it invalidates the desire to have the choice pre-made
that you want. That is hardly surprising to me. ;-)

There's no GNOME derivation of Ubuntu like Kubuntu, so obviously it's
invalid to look at Ubuntu in that way either, right?

There is a KDE Live CD, yet there is a Gnome Live CD as well, so they
cancel each other out. Yet there is only one SLE and it gets extra
resources. So how come this is not prefering one over the other?

SLE is a derived distribution. There are two possible views of this:

1. SLE's userbase is important here, in which case we have to consider
the install base of SLE when comparing GNOME to KDE installations for
openSUSE

2. SLE's userbase isn't important here and the fact that Novell made a
corporate decision on the DE for its derived distribution based on
openSUSE is irrelevant

#1 in my mind is patently ridiculous, because SLE is a derivation of
openSUSE.

But if you want to apply that "bias" from SLE, then you also have to
include those installations in the analysis of which desktop is the most
popular for openSUSE. You can't cherry-pick the elements of #1 and #2
above that favour your position and ignore the implications of those
cherry-picked statistics.

Jim

--
Jim Henderson
Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

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