Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Coming up with a good Policy ...
  • From: Boyd Lynn Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:28:24 -0600
  • Message-id: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908050821210.25924@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:07:58 Michael Meeks wrote:
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 14:16 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
After reading all emails and having many discussions about the default
desktop topic, I've wrote up the following draft proposal (at the end of
my long email) and propose to enact it.

One of the things that most interests me about this debate is the
excessive argumentation and extrapolation from whatever percentage of
install-base, to the idea that we should substantially offend our
growing Gnome community. Personally, I'm pretty annoyed by claims that
openSUSE is, or should be a KDE focused distribution, whatever it's
history - that at least is my bias.

Having said that - all this talk of "policy", and logic, reason,
marketing and so on suggests to me that this decision is a highly
charged, multi-disciplinary, nuanced - and *extremely* non-technical
one. In fact, it is hard to discern any technical issue here at all -
the code change in question is utterly trivial, even for my basic ycp
skills :-)

Indeed, to me this looks like a simple conflict between three opposed
view-points[1] "KDE default, no default, and GNOME default" - with
apparently no substantial chance of compromise, and seemingly a lack of
clarity around who is empowered to make the decision. Indeed - to me, it
seems like we have the obvious compromise position selected already.
The proposal I made - and I expect the board to put up it's voice in the regard here as Michael Löffler mentioned -, was my try to give a balanced view: * The choice to *only* set the radio button was something that Vincent "could live with" * I'm for alphabetical order, so GNOME is first but KDE is preselected ;) * The statement that both a first class desktops is something that I consider important.
I'm fine with other proposals as well and think that any proposal should take
into account that:
* we have an active GNOME developer community
* we have a significant number of GNOME users.
* we have an active KDE developer community
* we have a majority of KDE users
* There seem to be some kind of old wounds and perceived mistreatment by the
KDE developers.
* We need to heal these wounds without opening new ones.

So, my minimal counter proposal would not be "no default" but:
* No desktop is preselected
* We discuss the order of GNOME and KDE on the screen
* and most importantly: we make a public statement that both GNOME and KDE are
first class citiziens - and discuss what this really means!

Thanks for the proposal.

The proposal I liked was the change the selection to check boxes with both selected. This keeps the status quo and allows easy deselection. Should someone deselect both, then a warning should be thrown, unless other or advanced choices are selected. This would then allow the new user to just click next. I also like the idea of the guided tour to both desktops being available to allow users to make an educated choice.

Boyd Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx> 801 849-0213
ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047
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